CAMS AND HEADS?
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From: rochester,ny
CAMS AND HEADS? i have a 2002 z28 m6 no current mods.im looking in to slp head and cam package 440hp package. i am concerned about is problems after the install?like drivability issues and computer probs.if anyone has any insight on this it would be greatly appreciated.afterall we are all last of the f-body owners and we got to stick together until at least we are at the track <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> thanks guys.oh b-4 i 4-get who does tunning?dealers?or can i get a proggrammer?thanks again!
Re: CAMS AND HEADS? Be careful about advertised HP ratings. "440HP" is crank hp, which would be around 375 rear-wheel HP. Most of the well-known LS1 tuners you see to the right that sponsor this site are getting 400+ rwhp with their heads/cam packages and all the bolt-on modifications.
Drivability will not be an issue as long as you don't get too agressive on the camshaft durations. Stick with a cam smaller than 222 intake duration if you want excellent drivability and balanced performance.
Dealers are pretty useless when it comes to performance applications for our cars, most of them discourage any sort of modifications. Several of the shops you see to the right do custom PCM tuning. Thunder Racing, ARE, MTI, Cartek, etc... If you are not nearby, you simply send them your PCM, they tune it to your required specs and mods and send it back.
Welcome to the site, you have a TON of reading to do, and you will be happy with your purchase because these cars ROCK!
Tony
Drivability will not be an issue as long as you don't get too agressive on the camshaft durations. Stick with a cam smaller than 222 intake duration if you want excellent drivability and balanced performance.
Dealers are pretty useless when it comes to performance applications for our cars, most of them discourage any sort of modifications. Several of the shops you see to the right do custom PCM tuning. Thunder Racing, ARE, MTI, Cartek, etc... If you are not nearby, you simply send them your PCM, they tune it to your required specs and mods and send it back.
Welcome to the site, you have a TON of reading to do, and you will be happy with your purchase because these cars ROCK!
Tony
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From: rochester,ny
Re: CAMS AND HEADS? thanks nineball for the input!so many mods so little time(and money <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> )i should probally post this in a new thread but ill see what happens anyway.i know there are so many opinions out there but ...here it goes.
with no one around my area with expertise on our cars (lot of ricer shops though)im trying to find a good combo ill guess ill put it this way......
i have 2002 m6 z28 no mods.
heads and cam what is a good combo?is slp ok or is there a better setup out there close in price $2500 for @440 hp.
next for headers is there any good performing shorty sets or is it all long tube 4 best results?i hear slps r good but have some clearance issues.is there any that r better clearance with same gains?
for a cat back im going with slp loudmouth quad tip in the center i love that.
on top of this challenge i want to keep the car with all its emmissions hooked up and NO ses light or codes(that will drive me nuts)
anyone got any proven setups with dyno tests and no computer probs? i would really appreciate it!
i dont know why i am kinda partial to slp but is theres better for the same cost ..i just want the best for my baby!!
ps. anyone got some ss 10 spoke chrome rims 4 sale? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
thanks guys(this is like aa meeting but without giving up the booze!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />
with no one around my area with expertise on our cars (lot of ricer shops though)im trying to find a good combo ill guess ill put it this way......
i have 2002 m6 z28 no mods.
heads and cam what is a good combo?is slp ok or is there a better setup out there close in price $2500 for @440 hp.
next for headers is there any good performing shorty sets or is it all long tube 4 best results?i hear slps r good but have some clearance issues.is there any that r better clearance with same gains?
for a cat back im going with slp loudmouth quad tip in the center i love that.
on top of this challenge i want to keep the car with all its emmissions hooked up and NO ses light or codes(that will drive me nuts)
anyone got any proven setups with dyno tests and no computer probs? i would really appreciate it!
i dont know why i am kinda partial to slp but is theres better for the same cost ..i just want the best for my baby!!
ps. anyone got some ss 10 spoke chrome rims 4 sale? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
thanks guys(this is like aa meeting but without giving up the booze!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />
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From: Freeland, MD
Re: CAMS AND HEADS? OK - you want to stay emissions legal (or at least keep on all of the emissions equipment), and get a decent amount of HP.
First, that 440 number you keep quoting is at the flywheel. You can get 430 *rear wheel* HP (RWHP, which gets you about 480 to 500 at the flywheel) with a *good* heads/cam setup, but the emissions issue here should keep you a little below that. Some of the extreme heads/cam setups get over 440 RWHP, but those are usually not running cats.
I would get a good set of stage II heads and about a 221/221 114 LSA 0.575 lift cam. You can certainly go harder core than that, but will start to lose on the emissions side. That combo would give you plenty of power, be drivable, and still *should* pass the smog test. Look to spend about $3000-$3500 for good heads with a cam.
Shorty headers are worthless on an LS1. You can get Hooker (cheaper but decent) or FLP (good but more money) long tube headers, which should work much better for you.
The other mod to do is obviously an airlid. That is a quick 10 HP for about $120-150.
Do all of the above, and you should be about 420 RWHP if your heads are done by one of the more reputable shops.
First, that 440 number you keep quoting is at the flywheel. You can get 430 *rear wheel* HP (RWHP, which gets you about 480 to 500 at the flywheel) with a *good* heads/cam setup, but the emissions issue here should keep you a little below that. Some of the extreme heads/cam setups get over 440 RWHP, but those are usually not running cats.
I would get a good set of stage II heads and about a 221/221 114 LSA 0.575 lift cam. You can certainly go harder core than that, but will start to lose on the emissions side. That combo would give you plenty of power, be drivable, and still *should* pass the smog test. Look to spend about $3000-$3500 for good heads with a cam.
Shorty headers are worthless on an LS1. You can get Hooker (cheaper but decent) or FLP (good but more money) long tube headers, which should work much better for you.
The other mod to do is obviously an airlid. That is a quick 10 HP for about $120-150.
Do all of the above, and you should be about 420 RWHP if your heads are done by one of the more reputable shops.
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From: rochester,ny
Re: CAMS AND HEADS? let me ask u this is it better to have your heads machined and copy some ones specs?or better to get new ones and just replace.also that cam spec u mentioned with good heads can make that much power?i dont get smog test here yet just visual inspections....so maybee a littl e bigger cam?im sorry for my ignorance in this area and appreciate your patience.also do u know do the hooker headers have o2 provisions and a y pipe with cats?does it build good power?does it have clearance probs like i hear slp's do?also i have 3048 9tenths miles on it do i really need to change timing chain in the install?thanks for your help!!!!!!!!!like we all r im looking for the best bang for the buck and currently i have $3300 and $800 is going into the install i have a little flexability but not much.if u have a proven setup plz reply with pt #s and manufacturer if thats not to much .man i jump topics so much i confuse my self to many damn keys on this keyboard. thanks guys
Re: CAMS AND HEADS? Last of the Z28's,
Read up on MTI, GTP, & TEA head and cam packages for starters. Read stuff on the board & find someone's package you like the customize and copy their set to fit your needs.
For example with GTP stage 2 head w/dual springs and a TR 220 cam on 114 LSA, you'd basic's in place for over 400 rear wheel horsepower. It would just cost a few beans more than the SLP set up. This set up should be able to pass the sniffer test and drive very well.
Another set up TEA 5.3 Stage 2 heads also with dual springs and use MTI B1 type cam. Should pass sniffer test and make 400 at the rear wheels.
<small>[ July 28, 2002, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: 99 Black Bird T/A ]</small>
Read up on MTI, GTP, & TEA head and cam packages for starters. Read stuff on the board & find someone's package you like the customize and copy their set to fit your needs.
For example with GTP stage 2 head w/dual springs and a TR 220 cam on 114 LSA, you'd basic's in place for over 400 rear wheel horsepower. It would just cost a few beans more than the SLP set up. This set up should be able to pass the sniffer test and drive very well.
Another set up TEA 5.3 Stage 2 heads also with dual springs and use MTI B1 type cam. Should pass sniffer test and make 400 at the rear wheels.
<small>[ July 28, 2002, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: 99 Black Bird T/A ]</small>
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Re: CAMS AND HEADS? You should also check out JPR as Joe has a stage I set of heads that will make around 400 RWHP or more with a cam between a 220 to a 224 ! I think he is best bang for the buck out there right now. He is in NJ and you could even drive down there from where you are. There was one guy who dynoed 418 with this setup!!!!
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
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From: rochester,ny
Re: CAMS AND HEADS? wow!what about a little more aggressive cam?i dont have to pass a sniffer they just VISUALLY check the cats and make sure emmision hook ups are plugged in. (ie cats and o2 sensors)i have a standard so do i have to do i have to worry about pcm probs?or is that a problem no matter what you do?i want a some what deceint idle(sleeper)man if there is anyone out there that doesnt mine talking to the automotively challanged drop me an email with a phone# to further discuss how to turn my auto to a nice tame BEAST <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> .if not thats cool ill just continue with proggressing my carpul tunnel <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> !im really concerned with pcm probs but maybee there is some one out there who can set my mine at ease on this any way thanks guys you have been a lot of help!!!!!! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
darth716vador@prodigy.net
darth716vador@prodigy.net
Re: CAMS AND HEADS? hey man, on the computer tuning issue, you can easily take out the comp and send it to Thunder racing, MTI etc etc and they can fix you right up, my friend Adam did that after his heads/cam, he just sent them the comp and told them the specs over the phone and they did the rest, and his worked great!!
dont worry about not knowing much, i don't know as much about LS1's as i would like to either, but Im learning, and ive got one of the last Z's too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> (02 Sunset Orange M6)
<small>[ July 28, 2002, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: Chris81 ]</small>
dont worry about not knowing much, i don't know as much about LS1's as i would like to either, but Im learning, and ive got one of the last Z's too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> (02 Sunset Orange M6)
<small>[ July 28, 2002, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: Chris81 ]</small>
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From: rochester,ny
Re: CAMS AND HEADS? seems like from what ive been reading ...DONT DO A DAMN THING TO THE MOTOR!either it will blow smoke,not idle,ses lights all the time,or just break!has this happened to everyone that has performed bigger than bolt on mods?starting to think just save some more money and get a charger !!
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From: Chattanooga,Tn
Re: CAMS AND HEADS? I dont think you will have any problems out of a consevertive package.
Get a good set of heads (2.02int 1.57 exhaust)And a nice proven mild cam.MTI"S cam on a 114 would be good (221/221) I have also seen good results with a 218/218 on a 114 and it passed the sniffer test.
I used to work for TEA and I can tell you for the money spent there stuff very good.
I also have the Hooker headers they work real well but they dont have cats.they do have o2 hook up's (for the fronts)
Get a good set of heads (2.02int 1.57 exhaust)And a nice proven mild cam.MTI"S cam on a 114 would be good (221/221) I have also seen good results with a 218/218 on a 114 and it passed the sniffer test.
I used to work for TEA and I can tell you for the money spent there stuff very good.
I also have the Hooker headers they work real well but they dont have cats.they do have o2 hook up's (for the fronts)
Teching In
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From: LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY
Re: CAMS AND HEADS? DONT BE SCARED!! ITS ONLY MONEY. IF YOUR NOT GOING TO MOD IT SELL IT!!! YOUR ASKING FOR TROUBLE PUTTING ON A SUPER CHARGER WITH THE STOCK COMPRESSION RATIO OF THE MOTOR. ANYTHING OVER 8 PSI WHICH IS NOT MUCH IS A DEATH TRAP!! YOU WOULD HAVE TO PULL THE MOTOR AND REDO PART OF THE BOTTOM END TO GET A BIIGGER CHARGER TO WORK WITHOUT PROBLEMS. STICK WITH THE HEADS AND CAM JUST GET A GOOD SHOP TO DO THE WORK.
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From: rochester,ny
Re: CAMS AND HEADS? what kind of rwhp would i expect from that setup with headers?do you know?by the way i need to have cats i dont get sniffed but the make sure everything is there for inspection.
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From: Shippensburg, PA
Re: CAMS AND HEADS? There are some great shops out there, and the technology is advancing in leaps and bounds- MTI, JPR, GTP, TR... all of these shops seem to be class acts in customer service as well as results.
I have JPR stage 1 heads (stock valves/compression) with a 218 comp cam (.528/.535 lift). I wanted a reliable daily driver setup, that I could take to the track in street trim and run well. I also didn't want to worry about a lot of maintenance. I wanted to drive to the track, lower my tire pressure, and go. I definately received more than I expected! The car dynod 415/392 SAE with 3.42 gears, and the first run with the 4.10's on nittos was 11.90@118.59 on a humid summer night... the clutch fried in third gear on that run. I think 11.7x in nicer weather on the nittos and no weight reduction is doable with me at the wheel. And I didn't have to trade off any streetability or luxuries for that result.
I know Joe is very busy right now, but if you are interested, shoot him an email. He is in NJ if you are willing to make the trip down from NY. JPR heads are definately an option worth looking into!
I have JPR stage 1 heads (stock valves/compression) with a 218 comp cam (.528/.535 lift). I wanted a reliable daily driver setup, that I could take to the track in street trim and run well. I also didn't want to worry about a lot of maintenance. I wanted to drive to the track, lower my tire pressure, and go. I definately received more than I expected! The car dynod 415/392 SAE with 3.42 gears, and the first run with the 4.10's on nittos was 11.90@118.59 on a humid summer night... the clutch fried in third gear on that run. I think 11.7x in nicer weather on the nittos and no weight reduction is doable with me at the wheel. And I didn't have to trade off any streetability or luxuries for that result.
I know Joe is very busy right now, but if you are interested, shoot him an email. He is in NJ if you are willing to make the trip down from NY. JPR heads are definately an option worth looking into!
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From: rochester,ny
Re: CAMS AND HEADS? do flp headers have all emmission hook ups?i understand i can send my computer out i was just curios is it less of a hassle with codes for a standard than an automatic??
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From: rochester,ny
Re: CAMS AND HEADS? also is there a such thing as a head and cam and tunning package?(all in the same price)hey make it easy for me...what package should i buy most opinions win please state expected hp gains though plz...all im looking for is heads cam and headers i know about intake air and that but just a projected hp gain with heads cam and headers on a stock z28 plz if thats possible thanks
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From: LA New Orleans Marrero
Re: CAMS AND HEADS? please FLP's people enouif sed best header's on the market you *can't* get a better header than FLP's. with offroad pipe's power under your hood my friend. i dout your will find a better header out there............ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> as far as any other out there <img border="0" alt="[barf]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" />
Teching In
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From: New York
Re: CAMS AND HEADS? Hi Z28's,
I live in Syracuse,NY. Since you live in Buffalo, I would recommend Agostino Racing Engines to do the install and tuning if you decided to do heads/cam. About 2 hours drive. I did drive four hours to ARE and leave my car there for 4 days to install heads/cam, headers, tuning, dyno etc. These guys know what they are doing. If you want a good heads/cam package I'd recommend GTP+TR. You
can order any Heads/cam package from one of our sponsors and have ARE do the install and tuning.
I have GTP stage 2 (5.3 heads) and TR 224 112lsa cam. My car pulled 422 RWHP, 410 RWTQ with stock exhaust, stock MAF, and no pulleys.
I live in Syracuse,NY. Since you live in Buffalo, I would recommend Agostino Racing Engines to do the install and tuning if you decided to do heads/cam. About 2 hours drive. I did drive four hours to ARE and leave my car there for 4 days to install heads/cam, headers, tuning, dyno etc. These guys know what they are doing. If you want a good heads/cam package I'd recommend GTP+TR. You
can order any Heads/cam package from one of our sponsors and have ARE do the install and tuning.
I have GTP stage 2 (5.3 heads) and TR 224 112lsa cam. My car pulled 422 RWHP, 410 RWTQ with stock exhaust, stock MAF, and no pulleys.
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From: rochester,ny
Re: CAMS AND HEADS? REALLY APPROX HOW MUCH WAS THE INSTALL?DID YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS?DOES THE CAR STILL RUN LIKE IT DID BUT WITH WAY MORE ***?MAYBE YOU CAN ANSWER THIS FOR ME WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE IN LSA MEAN(IE 112,OR 114)THANKS!!!