It could be oil getting in the manifold from our POS pcv system. Mine had the same thing, oil all inside the intake manifold and in the intake ports.

Paul J.

 

I have the LS6 PCV system now....the PCV valve is nice and dry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" /> thats where all the oil originally came from that was in the intake I think (from the crappy LS1 PCV)

 

same problem here with brand new are motor.

i put the rockers on myself so i will check them but i know i sliconed em in.. whats the best stuff to use there?

anyways, i had an ls6 setup that didnt help with consumption, then i ran no pcv at all (just breathers)

now i run one breather and the stock air pump wired backward to be a crankcase vaccum pump.. i changed the oil at the same time, so ill see if my 3 quarts every 3k miles dropps down some.. i hope so ;(

 

well progress is that smoke is DEFINATELY black now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

pulled 3 plugs...threads are still tad oily but electrode and porcelin are covered in carbon...soot...way too much gas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

So far I sent it into open loop at 0%TPS from 0-1200 rpm and scaled the fueling to 90%...seemed to help but am I missing something here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

its a slight amount on startup...nothing for about 3 minutes of idling (when its cold)...a slight amount at idle after it gets to operating temps (it really is rich...but can't rule out some oil in it). Throw a quick rev it puts out a fair amount then subsides.

I haven't quantified what its doing down the road

I'm still leaning towards O2s now. Might pull the intake one more time and take a look now that I cleaned the oil out of it.

 

Brian, good point. I am frustrated, but I have run out of idea's. <img border="0" alt="[Banging Head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />

Jim, that is VERY interesting. I will ask my engine builder what type of seals he used. This may be it. The number 2,8,5, and 7 cylinders slowly foul plugs due to burning oil(takes a few weeks to foul them out). The car puffs smoke on start ups(quite a bit)then clears up and sometimes at idle. I don't see any smoke on deceleration and maybe a little under acceleration, but it goes away after a second. Which makes me think it cleans itself up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I am going over to my engine builders shop tonight and I will for SURE ask him. Jim thanks so much for the info. Do you guys have any other thoughts on my situation?

Thanks
Glenn

 

I'm not sure why Fireball thinks that fouled O2's are his problem... Fireball if your car is running overly rich the smoke would be black and not blue. If your o2's are not even working you might run superrich but I don't see what that has to do with oil. Please explain.

Someone pointed out a good thing to me like two years ago. That pcv line going into the side of the intake is under vacuum at WOT. Eliminate that as a variable FIRST.

I have seen some crapped out valve seals and guides on some LS1's.

The way the intake sits no oil runs thru it unless it's getting sucked in thru the pcv under WOT.

 

Brian, I was just thinking that the O2s could be the majority of your problem too. Hopefully that will take care of the smoking. If not, keep an eye on the plugs. Although you already have an idea it is coming from the top, not the bottom. If it keeps doing it, may just be the seals.

Glenn, got another thought for you. Put in fresh plugs on your bad cylinders, or you could check what is in there. Now, mark the top of the plug (while it is in the head), and remove it. Once it is out, put your mark so it is sitting the same as it was in the cylinder. Now look at the porcelain around the electrode. You should see a darker spot on it somewhere from the oil. If it is towards the top of the plug, it is from the head area. If it is on the bottom of the plug, it may be from rings. Mine was darker on the sides, but favored the top of the plug. Hopefully yours will too. If it is on the bottom, then you may want to look into doing a compression and leak down test on those cylinders.

Just for some info, mine would put a nice puff out when I started it (that seemed to get worse as the miles got accumulated), then it would seem to clear up for a few minutes. Then, it would just start coming out the exhaust. Sometimes it was next to impossible to see, but parked in the garage with the door open it became real obvious. Going down the road, it was fine while cruising, but half to WOT it would smoke real nice, then die off.

Hope this helps some.

Jim

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong>I'm not sure why Fireball thinks that fouled O2's are his problem... Fireball if your car is running overly rich the smoke would be black and not blue. If your o2's are not even working you might run superrich but I don't see what that has to do with oil. Please explain.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">this is an idle issue...its not a tremendous amount of smoke so it makes judging color hard...black smoke in small quantities looks grey that can be mistaken for blue. I found traces of oil on the intake (see pic above) but other than the intake or possibly seal/guide problems there is no where else to come from. No evidence of oil coming in the PCV (its dry) and the other line is only vacuum at WOT and this problem has been idle only when the line is dormant. I'm saying I had/have a mixture of gas and oil problems. O2 sensors are black, ATAP indicates the car thinks its lean and adding more fuel and the exhaust is pretty hard on the senses (makes me think over gassed)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Someone pointed out a good thing to me like two years ago. That pcv line going into the side of the intake is under vacuum at WOT. Eliminate that as a variable FIRST.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yes...but that is not doing anything at idle...this is an idle problem I'm having

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
The way the intake sits no oil runs thru it unless it's getting sucked in thru the pcv under WOT.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed...but since no gas runs thru the intake...what was left in there from the old motor has no easy way out...IMO it doesn't take that much oil to make it smoke.

 

Jim,
Hmm very interesting, my car does the same exact thing yours does, almost to a T. I put new 02's in 3 weeks ago and that helped with the tune of the car, but not with the oil problem. I did a compression test a month ago and all of the cylinders were 175+ one of them was like 172 and this was only on three rotations of the motor. If I wound the motor more they were all close to 180.

As for my plug, I get the sam thing as you. My plugs look like a Yin and Yang sign <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Half of the plug is black and the other half is whitish or some a couple of them have a white cloud and the rest is black.

My car puffs at start up and I feel it has gotten worse with miles also. The weird thing is when the car is hot and I start it up 30 minutes later it will puff smoke, now here is the crazy thing. It only does it sometimes and then on other hot starts it doesn't smoke at all.

Thanks again guy's and let me know any other thoughts.

John, what type of seals did you change to? You said they were rubber the second time around?

Glenn

PS Brian I would have to agree with PSJ. I had all of my buddies tell me "oh your car is rich with the way the plugs look" all of these guy's run carb cars. I new it was oil cuz some of the plugs looked good(whole porcelin white) and some didn't. If the car was that rich all the plugs would look black not just some. So I Ataped the car and the Lterms were +8 at cruz and -20 at idle on cold starts. I put new 02's in and the 02's float around +4 now at idle and cruz. My oil problem still exists. This is a great thread, I can't wait to get some new seals in.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">PS Brian I would have to agree with PSJ. I had all of my buddies tell me "oh your car is rich with the way the plugs look" all of these guy's run carb cars. I new it was oil cuz some of the plugs looked good(whole porcelin white) and some didn't. If the car was that rich all the plugs would look black not just some. So I Ataped the car and the Lterms were +8 at cruz and -20 at idle on cold starts. I put new 02's in and the 02's float around +4 now at idle and cruz. My oil problem still exists. This is a great thread, I can't wait to get some new seals in. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not basing the richness of the plugs...I'm basing off the fact that my O2 sensors are switching a tad slow (based off my A/F gage) and that they are reading kinda low with really high Ltrims at idle. This in conjunction with carbon covered sensors indicate rich condition.

I know 2 things. Oil was/is getting in the combustion chamber and that its running very rich. What is causing the smoke I see...that remains undetermined. AFAIK, I may have cleared up the oil problem by cleaning the intake and sealing the rocker arms. Further looking into this will occur...thats for sure <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

 

if you have aftermarket injectors, the offset may need to be changed which could make the (no oil) wet intake appear oily. with mis timed injector pulses

 

I have stock injectors <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

Quick update, I have some Viton seals on order <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> So hopefully this weekend I will have at least one of the bad cylinders done and see what happens. My engine builder said he built a street motor for his uncle and it was burning oil also. He pulled the whole motor apart and remiced the valve guides and they were within 2 thousands. So he decided not to use teflon seals and used some VITON seals and the car runs great now. These cars pull so much vacuum that oil will go right by the hard teflon seals I guess <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Another thing is I talked to Craig at GTP and he said you have to really work on venting these motors especially after new rings are installed. The people at Total Seal said the same thing.

Brian good luck at the track tonight!
Jim I will let you know how things go.

Glenn

 

Fireball,
any update? I have the exact same problem in my new motor. The rocker arms have RTV sealnt(black) on them.