Changing rod bolts with engine in the car
08-30-2002, 01:27 PM
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Changing rod bolts with engine in the car ASSUMING I can get the oil pan off with the engine in the car (its a C5, not an fbody), will I be able to change out the rodbolts with the motor still in place? I've never seen an LS1 up close with no oil pan so I dont know if the rod bolts will just be there staring me in the face or what.
Is it as simple as unbolting one, putting in an ARP, repeat 15 more times? Then torque em all to spec?
Also, whats the difference between the "Pro Series" and the "High Performance" Series ARP rodbolts they sell for the LS1?
Jon
Is it as simple as unbolting one, putting in an ARP, repeat 15 more times? Then torque em all to spec?
Also, whats the difference between the "Pro Series" and the "High Performance" Series ARP rodbolts they sell for the LS1?
Jon
08-30-2002, 01:30 PM
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Re: Changing rod bolts with engine in the car assuming you can get the oil pan and windage off then yes...you can change them out.
put the moly lube on the threads of the ARP and torque to 40 ft-lbs rotate the crank to have better access to each one.
the pro2000 is what I put in mine...highest tensile strength available <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
put the moly lube on the threads of the ARP and torque to 40 ft-lbs rotate the crank to have better access to each one.
the pro2000 is what I put in mine...highest tensile strength available <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
08-30-2002, 01:38 PM
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Re: Changing rod bolts with engine in the car Ok, a couple of questions....why moly lube on the threads? I was guessing some sort of locktite instead.
Whats the strength of the $75 high performance ones...right now $75 is a LOT to me (the pro's are $150) so if I'm never gonna break a high perf one in my N/A heads/cam motor at 6800rpms then I'll just stick with those.
Rumor is the oil pan will come off the C5 with a little wiggling and possibly jacking the motor up a bit. I'll find out this weekend I guess.
I've already replaced the timing chain with a JWIS, the oil pump with a Katech one, the heads are getting setup for double springs, so I figure the last 2 things to conquer to make an LS1 not suck are the rod bolts and clutch. <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />
Whats the strength of the $75 high performance ones...right now $75 is a LOT to me (the pro's are $150) so if I'm never gonna break a high perf one in my N/A heads/cam motor at 6800rpms then I'll just stick with those.
Rumor is the oil pan will come off the C5 with a little wiggling and possibly jacking the motor up a bit. I'll find out this weekend I guess.
I've already replaced the timing chain with a JWIS, the oil pump with a Katech one, the heads are getting setup for double springs, so I figure the last 2 things to conquer to make an LS1 not suck are the rod bolts and clutch. <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />
08-30-2002, 01:42 PM
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Re: Changing rod bolts with engine in the car moly lube is so that the friction of insertion is eliminated so that an accurate torque reading can be taken. I just check the torque several times before final assembly. 40 ft-lbs is unlikely to loosen up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
the Hi-po series is most likely fine...its definately a major improvement over stock...I just wanted to do it with the best part I could find at the time during my LS1 assembly
the Hi-po series is most likely fine...its definately a major improvement over stock...I just wanted to do it with the best part I could find at the time during my LS1 assembly
08-30-2002, 02:07 PM
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Re: Changing rod bolts with engine in the car You might want to order some Kaytech rod bolts. They are cheaper then ARP and have more tensle strength.
ALbert
ALbert
08-30-2002, 02:19 PM
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Re: Changing rod bolts with engine in the car You really need to guage them for roundness after you put new rod bolts in. LS1 rods are the cracked cap type so I don't know what effect the new bolts will have. Surely better than stock.
08-30-2002, 03:02 PM
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Re: Changing rod bolts with engine in the car </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jswhite:
<strong>You really need to guage them for roundness after you put new rod bolts in. LS1 rods are the cracked cap type so I don't know what effect the new bolts will have. Surely better than stock.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Guage them for roundness? What does this mean? I was under the impression with the cracked caps there was no room for adjustments as it only fits together one way every time.
<strong>You really need to guage them for roundness after you put new rod bolts in. LS1 rods are the cracked cap type so I don't know what effect the new bolts will have. Surely better than stock.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Guage them for roundness? What does this mean? I was under the impression with the cracked caps there was no room for adjustments as it only fits together one way every time.
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08-30-2002, 03:03 PM
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Re: Changing rod bolts with engine in the car </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by wicked 98z:
<strong>You might want to order some Kaytech rod bolts. They are cheaper then ARP and have more tensle strength.
ALbert</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'll check into that. Thanks.
<strong>You might want to order some Kaytech rod bolts. They are cheaper then ARP and have more tensle strength.
ALbert</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'll check into that. Thanks.
08-30-2002, 03:17 PM
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Re: Changing rod bolts with engine in the car Ok, the prices are:
ARP HiPerf LS1 rod bolts - $75
Katech LS1 Rod Bolts - $123
ARP ProSeries LS1 rod bolts - $150
I'm leaning towards the cheaper ones only because I dont understand how the specs of each bolt relate to what kind of actual stress an LS1 will see at 7000rpms. How much is overkill?
Maybe I should put the rodbolt install off a few months until I can afford the $150 bolts and just do it right once.
ARP HiPerf LS1 rod bolts - $75
Katech LS1 Rod Bolts - $123
ARP ProSeries LS1 rod bolts - $150
I'm leaning towards the cheaper ones only because I dont understand how the specs of each bolt relate to what kind of actual stress an LS1 will see at 7000rpms. How much is overkill?
Maybe I should put the rodbolt install off a few months until I can afford the $150 bolts and just do it right once.
08-30-2002, 03:44 PM
#10
Re: Changing rod bolts with engine in the car </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jmX:
<strong>ASSUMING I can get the oil pan off with the engine in the car (its a C5, not an fbody)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What is the difference between it and the C5? Is there any reason that it could not be done with the engine still in the car?
<strong>ASSUMING I can get the oil pan off with the engine in the car (its a C5, not an fbody)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What is the difference between it and the C5? Is there any reason that it could not be done with the engine still in the car?
08-30-2002, 04:11 PM
#11
Re: Changing rod bolts with engine in the car jMx, you should be able to get the oil pan off without much trouble. You can loosen the bolts to the frame and stick some prybars b/w the x-member and the frame on both sides. That should give you plenty of clearance. Message Andy@AA on the CorvetteForum b/c he's very knowledgeable with the C5 motor and tearing it apart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> He'd tell you exactly how to do it.
Please let me know how this turns out. I may consider doing this as well! I'd like to spin the motor to 6900 area w/out worrying about it snapping a rod bolt!
Please let me know how this turns out. I may consider doing this as well! I'd like to spin the motor to 6900 area w/out worrying about it snapping a rod bolt!
08-30-2002, 04:43 PM
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Re: Changing rod bolts with engine in the car LS1290, on an fbody, the crossmember is VERY MUCH in the way of the motor. In the Ybody, the engine is lower and further back (for weight balance reasons I assume) so the steering/crossmember is primarily in front of the motor...less in the way of the oil pan.
NastyC5, I'll be documenting the install like all my others so if I do decide to do it, I'll be sure and post photographs and instructions of each step. I too dont want to worry about a rodbolt snapping with my car spinning to 67-6800.
NastyC5, I'll be documenting the install like all my others so if I do decide to do it, I'll be sure and post photographs and instructions of each step. I too dont want to worry about a rodbolt snapping with my car spinning to 67-6800.
08-30-2002, 04:48 PM
#13
Re: Changing rod bolts with engine in the car </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jmX:
<strong>LS1290, on an fbody, the crossmember is VERY MUCH in the way of the motor. In the Ybody, the engine is lower and further back (for weight balance reasons I assume) so the steering/crossmember is primarily in front of the motor...less in the way of the oil pan.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So on a ybody, it should not be a problem then getting to the rods and changing them?
<strong>LS1290, on an fbody, the crossmember is VERY MUCH in the way of the motor. In the Ybody, the engine is lower and further back (for weight balance reasons I assume) so the steering/crossmember is primarily in front of the motor...less in the way of the oil pan.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So on a ybody, it should not be a problem then getting to the rods and changing them?
08-30-2002, 04:50 PM
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Re: Changing rod bolts with engine in the car </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ls1290:
So on a ybody, it should not be a problem then getting to the rods and changing them</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Once the oil pan is off the bolts are just there in plain sight. Should be easy once that pan is outta there.
So on a ybody, it should not be a problem then getting to the rods and changing them</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Once the oil pan is off the bolts are just there in plain sight. Should be easy once that pan is outta there.
08-30-2002, 05:15 PM
#16
Re: Changing rod bolts with engine in the car </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jmX:
<strong>Once the oil pan is off the bolts are just there in plain sight. Should be easy once that pan is outta there.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for the info <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
<strong>Once the oil pan is off the bolts are just there in plain sight. Should be easy once that pan is outta there.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for the info <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
08-30-2002, 10:41 PM
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Re: Changing rod bolts with engine in the car I researched the 2 ARP bolts vs. Katech awhile back and the Katechs had the highest tensile strength.
My mech didn't want to deal with the roundness issue or change the rods might shift or something and he didn't want responsibility for doing them. Maybe it's not an issue with cracked rods.
Are LS1's press fit or screw in, or??
My mech didn't want to deal with the roundness issue or change the rods might shift or something and he didn't want responsibility for doing them. Maybe it's not an issue with cracked rods.
Are LS1's press fit or screw in, or??
08-30-2002, 11:28 PM
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Re: Changing rod bolts with engine in the car Jon....
Let me tell you what I would do if you don't want to change out the rod bearings at the same time.
I would just remove and torque 1 rod bolt at a time and replace it with an ARP bolt. That way, you wont change the geometry / location of the rod bearing cap in relation to the connecting rod. This may be important since we are dealing with "cracked rod" bearing caps. Alignment is very critical.
Yes, use moly lube or at least motor oil on the ARP bolt threads [and] on the face of the bolt prior to insalling them and torqueing. Better yet, just dip the whole bolt in oil prior to installation. That will insure proper bolt torque and stretch.
Good luck, buddy......
Ron,
____________________________________________
<small>[ August 30, 2002, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: Kimchee and Rice ]</small>
Let me tell you what I would do if you don't want to change out the rod bearings at the same time.
I would just remove and torque 1 rod bolt at a time and replace it with an ARP bolt. That way, you wont change the geometry / location of the rod bearing cap in relation to the connecting rod. This may be important since we are dealing with "cracked rod" bearing caps. Alignment is very critical.
Yes, use moly lube or at least motor oil on the ARP bolt threads [and] on the face of the bolt prior to insalling them and torqueing. Better yet, just dip the whole bolt in oil prior to installation. That will insure proper bolt torque and stretch.
Good luck, buddy......
Ron,
____________________________________________
<small>[ August 30, 2002, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: Kimchee and Rice ]</small>
08-31-2002, 01:02 AM
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Re: Changing rod bolts with engine in the car </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Kimchee and Rice:
<strong>I would just remove and torque 1 rod bolt at a time and replace it with an ARP bolt. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly what I was going to do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />
Mellow, from what I hear, the LS1 rod bolts are just screw in. They dont use a nut and a pressed in bolt, the arp bolts juts thread right into the upper part of the rod apparently.
<strong>I would just remove and torque 1 rod bolt at a time and replace it with an ARP bolt. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly what I was going to do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />
Mellow, from what I hear, the LS1 rod bolts are just screw in. They dont use a nut and a pressed in bolt, the arp bolts juts thread right into the upper part of the rod apparently.