Country Boy

iTrader: (24)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by NastyC5:
<strong>The cam must have been ground 180* out of phase if it was installed dot to dot, ie: the picture below:
http://www.ls1info.com/article.php?sid=192</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is my bet. I have seen this before. The cam was ground wrong from where it came from. Ifs thats the case, then you can have the cam makers pay for the damage!

98blackSS

I've also heard about the 180* out thing during the grind, although I'm betting this is extremely rare. In any case, please let us know what you find.. I'm very curious.

2xLS1

iTrader: (25)

You say the car never started??? What does this say about the power of the starter motors on these cars that they can overcome contact between pistons and valves.

HOWQUICK

what timing set did you use? Sound to me like you used a Rollmaster and timed it off the crank key marking and not the timing marking...

must be something said for degreeing cams in this pile of pudding... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

these 180* wrong camshafts...are you fellas talking crank degrees or cam?

Raughammer

So you did this "Turned over the MOTOR by hand a few times when the plugs were out and after the cam/valvetrain was installed?"

And everything went up and down/round and round with no grinding, or resistance?

Something was mechanicaly wrong for this scenario to happen; "One of the rocker arms is off to the side of the valve then we notice about 4-5 other rockers exploded. So we tear down everything again but we dont pull the cam out. we take the rockers off and about three of the hardened pushrods are broke in half, and two bent."

Pistons hit the valves. Etiher the cam was not in the correct postition. The cam/crank were not aligned, the cam was ground 180 out, the timing chain sprokets were not aligned correctly or the rockers were mis installed.

Note world. ALWAYS DEGREE IN YOUR CAMS. Do not assume the manufacturer ground it correctly, or the timing chain sprockets were marked/ground correctly, etc.

There is a write up on my web page on how to do it. You should ALWAYS degree it in.

A mis ground cam, a mis marked sprocket, would be evident and found at the degreeing phase.

On a much more common note... a few rags stuffed in to the piston bore to prevent contamination and left there after the head was put on would also cause the above described scenario. (God forbid)

John Campbell

Camaroholic

iTrader: (1)

I know someone (not me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> ) that put his TR224 cam in aligned cam dot to crank key. He cranked it, it made a little noise, he took it back apart, corrected his mistake & put it back together, but the car still didn't run very well. Turned out he lightly bent 3 intake valves on one head (quick compression check showed no compression in 2 cylinders). The others were fine. No broken valvetrain parts or bent pushrods otherwise. He replaced the 3 valves and went on with his bidness. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Car ran fine from there. This sounds MUCH more significant than that.

-Andrew

wrencher

iTrader: (2)

I suggest you take this 224 out put it up next to o.e. cam & looking from timing chain end put dowel pins facing up see how the lobes line up.

WS6 RULES

Pistons hit valves simple as that. And theres more damage than you think. Bent valve stems, all need to be changed. If you put the cam in right then the valve lift was just too much, you needed to change pistons to ones with valve relieve cut into them.

nbm99ta

I'm betting that the cam was ground wrong. It's either 180* out, or they ground WAY too much lift in. If you plan on replacing the lifters, send me a PM. I have a brand new set cheap.

roy

It sounds like you were 360 degrees out on the crankshaft . Since everybody knows the crankshaft rotates 720 degrees for 360 degrees of camshaft rotation. In otherwords in a 4 stroke motor the crank rotates two revolutions per cam shaft revolution.
{retraction} I retract everything I said in the above post.

Did you happen to verify that the number 0ne cylinder was at top dead center prior to putting on the timing chain.

<small>[ September 08, 2002, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: roy ]</small>

Go FasTA

I have seen and heard about people "thinking" they were lining up dot to dot, but were actually misinterpreting a piece of dirt or small mark on the crank as the dot. I wouldn't be surprised if something like that happened.

Also, as said earlier, if the cam is ground correctly and the dots were aligned, there is no way to get the cam 180* out. The camshaft position sensor and crankshaft position sensors are used to determine timing.

Raughammer

Any news on this one?

Throw a dog a bone, brah!

John

EdmontonSS

If the cam is 180 out, OR the crank is 360 out there will be no piston/valve interference. This simply means that what was compression stroke is now exhaust stroke (the pistons still in the same position realative to the valve in these scenarios). Now if the cam were 90 or 270 degrees out or the crank 180, NOW you have a problem!

MR NASTY

iTrader: (5)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by wrencher:
<strong>I suggest you take this 224 out put it up next to o.e. cam & looking from timing chain end put dowel pins facing up see how the lobes line up.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">thats what i was going to do. But i won't know untill monday or tuesday when i start working on it again. Its at a buddies shop and I got work 2 camaro

MR NASTY

iTrader: (5)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by wrencher:
<strong>I suggest you take this 224 out put it up next to o.e. cam & looking from timing chain end put dowel pins facing up see how the lobes line up.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">thats what i was going to do. But i won't know untill monday or tuesday when i start working on it again. Its at a buddies shop and I got work tommarrow

Pedal-2-Metal

I think you just F'd up the install and wont admit it!!! hehe J/K Tom....

TTT

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

Hammer is right. Good post

topfig1

iTrader: (5)

Hey Sic, Tuesday has come and gone. Whats the verdict?

topfig
MGySgt USMC

MR NASTY

iTrader: (5)

well i took the the heads off completly and all the valves are bent and the pistons are kissed. The plastic casings for the lifters are cracked. I pulled the cam out and no damage was on the cam. I think the timing was off. but I swear to you the dots were lined up. I myself checked, another friend and another friend also checked for the dots to be lined up. I'm freaked out on this and I'm prolly not gonna install another cam again in my life. like hammer said " A mis ground cam, a mis marked sprocket , would be evident and found at the degreeing phase."
I'll check up on that.
another ? how can I find out if a lifter is BAD?

Raven02TA

iTrader: (11)

would it be possible if they sent you the wrong rods? or springs? this is gonna bother me because this cam is my next mod. if the pistons were kissed then you probably got a wrong part mixed in????? im guessing here.