red53gmc

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Quickin:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1moreblackta:
ok, real quick question here guys........

you have an ls6. You replace the cam with a bigger cam. Do a great set of ported ls6 heads, ls6 manifold, and a great set of headers.

Now, you get an ls1. Again, put in the same cam as above, same heads, same ls6 manifold, and same headers.......

now, please explain to be how the modded 'ls6' will give me more hp that the moddes 'ls1' please........

im dying to know... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My guess is: they will be the same.

You have changed every item that GM has changed to make the LS6, except the headers, which will help them equally having done the other items you mentioned.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">BUT THEN YOU'VE JUST BUILT AN LS6!!!!

<small>[ September 09, 2002, 06:31 AM: Message edited by: red53gmc ]</small>

SB

A buddy of mine put in an (02)ls6 motor in his 99SS camaro after he blew his ls1 motor and he now has 3k miles on the new motor.

He has all the boltons plus mac headers and we were both at the dyno and as a point of reference I saw his car put out 405rwhp and 383rwtq with no dyno tricks (17" tires, etc.). This was with no cam, ported heads, and no tuning just boltons. The a/f was 13.0 straight across the board with no knock with 28* of timing with the rev limiter at 6800.

steve <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

<small>[ September 09, 2002, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: SB ]</small>

Quickin

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by red53gmc:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Quickin:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1moreblackta:
ok, real quick question here guys........

you have an ls6. You replace the cam with a bigger cam. Do a great set of ported ls6 heads, ls6 manifold, and a great set of headers.

Now, you get an ls1. Again, put in the same cam as above, same heads, same ls6 manifold, and same headers.......

now, please explain to be how the modded 'ls6' will give me more hp that the moddes 'ls1' please........

im dying to know... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My guess is: they will be the same.

You have changed every item that GM has changed to make the LS6, except the headers, which will help them equally having done the other items you mentioned.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">BUT THEN YOU'VE JUST BUILT AN LS6!!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, not really. In the example the cam is bigger than a stock LS6 cam, the heads are ported LS6 heads (better) and better headers. So its not an LS6, its far beyond a stock LS6. Since everything else between the 2 motors is basically the same, I thought they would be equal after these same mods. Or am I missing something?

383ss

iTrader: (14)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by red53gmc:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 383ss:

Also pulleys most likely WON'T give you 5rwhp on a built car and what intake are you putting on to give it 10 RWHP??? Tuning should be about 15 MAX

You do the math.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why won't pullies give the same HP on a built motor? Did they all of a sudden just start eating HP??? I know of several people that have gotten 9-10 RWHP(which is what? 11-12 FWHP?) with intakes.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My pullies got me 0 rwhp peak. I just wouldn't bet on 10 by any means.
What intake are you going to put on it???? On stock CID an LS6 intake is the best you are going to get.

383ss

iTrader: (14)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Quickin:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by red53gmc:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Quickin:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1moreblackta:
ok, real quick question here guys........

you have an ls6. You replace the cam with a bigger cam. Do a great set of ported ls6 heads, ls6 manifold, and a great set of headers.

Now, you get an ls1. Again, put in the same cam as above, same heads, same ls6 manifold, and same headers.......

now, please explain to be how the modded 'ls6' will give me more hp that the moddes 'ls1' please........

im dying to know... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My guess is: they will be the same.

You have changed every item that GM has changed to make the LS6, except the headers, which will help them equally having done the other items you mentioned.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">BUT THEN YOU'VE JUST BUILT AN LS6!!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, not really. In the example the cam is bigger than a stock LS6 cam, the heads are ported LS6 heads (better) and better headers. So its not an LS6, its far beyond a stock LS6. Since everything else between the 2 motors is basically the same, I thought they would be equal after these same mods. Or am I missing something?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">EXACTLY, in the end as far as HP wise, the ONLY thing that is going to get you any more HP than an LS1 is the HEADS. LS6 heads are worth about 10rwhp over LS1 Heads. They rest will ALL BE THE SAME. Your replacing everything else.

<small>[ September 09, 2002, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: 383ss ]</small>

Quickin

Gotcha! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

I'm just too happy right now. I found the 1 7/8" Grot LT's I've been hunting for. <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />

Crazyquik

Dont worry about any of this.

With 436ci, you'll be able to run a small cam (for that size engine) giving you good idle quality, better emissions (if you care about that), and a responsive feel while still making assloads of torque and more power compared to most 346s.

Will there maybe be a full house solid roller 346 that makes more hp than you? Possibly, but your torque will own him, his will idle like a race car, require periodic valve lashings, possibly race gas, and he'll have to be geared/tired to rev well past 7000 to take advantage of it. Your combo should deliver a very stock feel untill you lean into the pedal. If you go with a quiet exhuast, most folks wont even know you have a cam.

J.

BurnOut

iTrader: (1)

Unless the LS1 heads are decked compression will be slightly higher on the LS6 headed motor, too, due to the smaller chambers in the heads.

WNA B LS1- lift doesn't affect idle quality nearly as much as duration and LDA.

Quickin- the problem here is that you're wanting a smooth (almost stock) idle, is that correct?? If so, you have a long battle ahead of you; in order to get to those RWHP/RWTQ numbers, you're going to need to rev the motor; which in turn requires a beefier cam so the motor can breathe at higher RPM levels. Which decreases your idle quality. See what I'm saying?? Sure, a bigger motor will help get you there, but again, we run into the cam issue... while you can get the same output at a lower RPM (with a bigger motor as opposed to a smaller motor), you're going to have to move just as much air to hit those numbers. Which means a big cam. Granted, a given cam will be tamer in a larger motor than in a smaller one, but you're still going to be willing to accept some degradation in idle quality.

The easiest answer, honestly, is forced induction or nitrous. With FI you can run a small cam and a moderate amount of boost and easily hit your numbers. I know it's an extra expense, but if you want big power and a silky idle, it's the easiest way to go.

Crazyquik

https://ls1tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...c;f=5;t=002397

This guy probably has an engine similar to yours. Email him about his cam and how he likes it.

J.

1moreblackta

QUOTE]BUT THEN YOU'VE JUST BUILT AN LS6!!!![/QB][/QUOTE]

no, you havent. You built a motor with LS6 heads.

then you get a ls6. Dyno's 360 lets say.

Then you do heads/cam/ headers. Are you gonna make the 100+ you would on an ls1?

no.

Suppose you get a mild h/c car that makes 370 to the wheels. You upgrade the heads again, but in an even bigger cam, etc. Will you see 100+ added? no......

red53gmc

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1moreblackta:
<strong>QUOTE]BUT THEN YOU'VE JUST BUILT AN LS6!!!!

no, you havent. You built a motor with LS6 heads.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, you have. You've put the ls6 intake and ls6 heads on the ls1 and now it becomes the ls6, assuming you change the cam. Then, it's an ls6 with a cam. It may have used to be an ls1, but it isn't anymore.

...everything on the ls1/ls6 are the same except for the cam, heads, and intake. You take the ls1 and put the ls6 intake, ls6 heads, ls6 cam and what do you get? An ls6. You no longer have an ls1. To keep it an ls1, you would have to keep the ls1 intake and heads.

Assuming you keep everything on the ls1:
change the cam, stage 2 the heads, you will see less hp than the ls6 with the same mods.
Mod for mod the ls6 will always produce more power than the ls1 b/c it has the better intake and better heads. There are no options for replacement for these on the ls6 as there are for the ls1.

Quickin

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Crazyquik:
<strong>Dont worry about any of this.

With 436ci, you'll be able to run a small cam (for that size engine) giving you good idle quality, better emissions (if you care about that), and a responsive feel while still making assloads of torque and more power compared to most 346s.

Will there maybe be a full house solid roller 346 that makes more hp than you? Possibly, but your torque will own him, his will idle like a race car, require periodic valve lashings, possibly race gas, and he'll have to be geared/tired to rev well past 7000 to take advantage of it. Your combo should deliver a very stock feel untill you lean into the pedal. If you go with a quiet exhuast, most folks wont even know you have a cam.

J.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is what I'm hoping. I hope the motor dynos at 460/460, the idle should be very smooth considering the cam I went with. 460 is all the torque i need on the street.

DenzSS

02 LS6's typically dyno in the 360s. A bunch have been dyno'd in KC--all in the 360s bone stock.

383ss

iTrader: (14)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by red53gmc:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1moreblackta:
<strong>QUOTE]BUT THEN YOU'VE JUST BUILT AN LS6!!!!

no, you havent. You built a motor with LS6 heads.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, you have. You've put the ls6 intake and ls6 heads on the ls1 and now it becomes the ls6, assuming you change the cam. Then, it's an ls6 with a cam. It may have used to be an ls1, but it isn't anymore.

...everything on the ls1/ls6 are the same except for the cam, heads, and intake. You take the ls1 and put the ls6 intake, ls6 heads, ls6 cam and what do you get? An ls6. You no longer have an ls1. To keep it an ls1, you would have to keep the ls1 intake and heads.

Assuming you keep everything on the ls1:
change the cam, stage 2 the heads, you will see less hp than the ls6 with the same mods.
Mod for mod the ls6 will always produce more power than the ls1 b/c it has the better intake and better heads. There are no options for replacement for these on the ls6 as there are for the ls1.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There are MORE differences than cam, heads and intake. Intake wasnt' different the last 2 years anyway. There are no more power making differences but the block is a little different for better oil flow and cooling, PVC system different, Oil pump(I think) and a few other things.

<small>[ September 10, 2002, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: 383ss ]</small>