</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Fenris Ulf:
<strong>[QUOTE]Actually Craig would only charge another 200 to replace the 918s with doubles, but supposedly the 918s are all ok now. Milling is free and he flows every head, and the $350 core charge is the same as if you got 5.7L heads...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So are you telling me that Thunder Racing tacks on an addtional $300 on top of what GTP charges for double springs??

On Thunder Racing's site, stg. 2 heads w/ 918 springs are $2399, and the same head w/ double springs is $2899. Thats a $500 difference.

I must have been misquoted on the heads, because when I called thunder, they said that after I sent in my cylinder heads there was an addtional $300+ charge for an upgrade to 5.3L heads.

<small>[ September 25, 2002, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: verbs ]</small>

 

I personally think this has gotten out of hand.. I have read a bunch of misleading information.. Like who was the first to get cars in the 11's and 10's, etc., etc., etc. Buy what you want and be happy.. Spend that money!!! Also, I think you should stop saying what you could have dyno'd.. Take the money you claimed to save on your heads and get ls1edit done.. What you dyno'd is what you dyno'd.. Right now your car is making XXX amount of horsepower and until Santa Claus bring you 5 to 10 more horses.. Live with it.. Putting down good head porters is not cool in my book. People have to eat you know..

 

maybe, I'm wrong. That's what I was told by TEA.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 383ss:
<strong>maybe, I'm wrong. That's what I was told by TEA.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well of course they told you that, they want to sell their heads...lol.
AJ

 

See post:

Dyno results for GTP 2 heads/ reverse split cam!!

Its my car that was built by Raging Motorsports and being impartial I love the results.

Dads Toy

 

Well put Vince.

 

TEA rocks! 400rwhp through the mufflers with no tuning. Stage 1 heads small 218 dur cam. I don't many really good track times because I've never really hammered on my 60fts. I was scared of breaking my rearend. But on one weak attempt NA I ran 12.9 at 113 on a 2.4 60ft, car bogged and fell completely on it's face...3.42 gears. I have also run 11.58 at 123 on a 1.91 60ft with a small shot of dry N2O. Again through the Flowmaster catback... I have a Moser 12 bolt now and new rear suspension setup...so playtime is OVER! I'll post some numbers soon.

Good choice gunny!

 

Man Verbs, I just don't understand you. Sometimes it sounds as if you're downing your TEA heads, and at others, you're defending them. Which is it man, are you happy with them, or would you rather have the GTP's that only made 4rwhp more than yours. And with all the excuses you've given about when you dynoed, e.g.; bad tune, bad O2's, etc., you think you would be able to hit 450 rwhp. Good Lord man, do you still really think you would have been that much better of with the GTP's? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is, you made 437 rwhp with all the problems you listed, yet a GTP headed car put down 441 rwhp, and you start complaining and saying that your TEA heads are your limiting factor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Dude, you have lower compression, a supposed bad tune, supposed bad O2's, and who knows what else wrong with your car. Get off your a$$ and fix the chit, and go put down more HP for less money! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> It just really bothers me to sit here read all your crap about how if you would have went with the GTP's, you would have made more power......how can you be so sure? Look how much power you're already making, with the potential for even more. How in the hell can you even be the least unsatisfied with your haeds? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Look, no matter what the outcome of this post, people are still gonna buy the haeds that THEY think will make them the most power. Whether it be TEA, GTP, MTI, etc., it's all up to them, the consumer, as to what they want, and how much money they're willing to spend. I'm a firm believer in every head out there on the market can make acceptable power, just so long as you choose your cam wisely, and have a proper tune. That's what it's all about people. Don't just buy a set of heads because they just happen to be the most popular ones at the moment, and the same goes for the cam. I say, buy your heads first, then get with your head porter, study your flow sheet, and design your cam from there. If you can find an off the shelf cam that just so happens to meet your needs, than great, go with it, no matter who it's from, even if it means buying from a different vendor whom didn't port your heads. But if you can't find an off the shelf grind, go custom. There's no better way to compliment your high dollar heads than with a cam that was designed just for them! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Well, that's my $.02 for the day! Take it for what it's worth, although it might not be much! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

P.S. Verbs, I'm not trying to call you out, or even flame you man. I just don't understand how someone could be as unhappy as you, when they're making the power they are with all the problems you say you have. Get those little problems fixed, and go back to the dyno and put up some massive numbers man! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VINCE:
<strong>Take the money you claimed to save on your heads and get ls1edit done.. What you dyno'd is what you dyno'd.. Right now your car is making XXX amount of horsepower and until Santa Claus bring you 5 to 10 more horses.. Live with it.. Putting down good head porters is not cool in my book. People have to eat you know..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Um, when did I put down any head porters? I said GTP makes the best product, and if you have the $$$ get em. TEA is the best bang for your buck as far as head porting and I still stand by that. I said I couldn't justify spending the extra money on the better heads.

Smoke ur 5.0 asked where someone got the huge price difference between the two heads from, so I elaborated for him.

How is anyone being put down?

As far as me getting LS1 edit done, my car was tuned for over a day, with most of the focus going to getting the car to idle. As far as my a/f ratio and other aspects, the tuners did a half *** job IMO. There is only one place in town that has LS1 edit, and if I want to go somewhere else I gotta drive at least 500 miles each way. Kind of frustrating as I don't have the time to take it somewhere else.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by UnbelievabLS1:
<strong>Man Verbs, I just don't understand you. Sometimes it sounds as if you're downing your TEA heads, and at others, you're defending them.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I defend them as being the best bang for your buck heads out there, especially when fully decked out. They are not the best heads out there IMO, judging by a back to back flowing of my heads vs. GTP heads I witnessed on the same bench, and by the better numbers people put out over TEA heads.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by UnbelievabLS1:
<strong>Which is it man, are you happy with them, or would you rather have the GTP's that only made 4rwhp more than yours.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For what I paid, I'm extatic. I knew I wasn't getting the best, and I accept that. I don't know where you got 4rwhp from (this thread?), but most likely GTP heads would add a bit more rwhp than that. I also have a bigger cam than Justin's 224/224 cam for example, and had more hp to start with before the heads/cam process.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by UnbelievabLS1:
<strong>And with all the excuses you've given about when you dynoed, e.g.; bad tune, bad O2's, etc., you think you would be able to hit 450 rwhp. Good Lord man, do you still really think you would have been that much better of with the GTP's?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, I do think I'd be better off with GTP's even though I should hit 450rwhp with these heads. Keep in mind I had 363rwhp/372rwtq before the heads and cam.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by UnbelievabLS1:
<strong>Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is, you made 437 rwhp with all the problems you listed, yet a GTP headed car put down 441 rwhp, and you start complaining and saying that your TEA heads are your limiting factor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">After seeing the flow differences between the two, yes, I'd have to say that there is more power to be made with GTP's.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by UnbelievabLS1:
<strong>Dude, you have lower compression, a supposed bad tune, supposed bad O2's, and who knows what else wrong with your car. Get off your a$$ and fix the chit, and go put down more HP for less money!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I just installed all the parts I needed to fix the car (o2 sensor, fuel filter, and hardened pushrods), but I just gotta get down there for the tune. If I wasn't so damn busy I'd have been tuned a long time ago

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by UnbelievabLS1:
<strong>It just really bothers me to sit here read all your crap about how if you would have went with the GTP's, you would have made more power......how can you be so sure? Look how much power you're already making, with the potential for even more. How in the hell can you even be the least unsatisfied with your haeds? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I feel I can be sure because GTP had better flow numbers basically at all lifts, low/mid/high. The difference is pretty big at times. As much as 15 cfm in the higher lifts.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by UnbelievabLS1:
<strong>P.S. Verbs, I'm not trying to call you out, or even flame you man. I just don't understand how someone could be as unhappy as you, when they're making the power they are with all the problems you say you have. Get those little problems fixed, and go back to the dyno and put up some massive numbers man! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know I'm bitching a lot....a lot of it is just frustration with this whole process.....parts arriving weeks late (or not arriving at all mysteriously disappearing) with some damaged from poor packaging, the car being down three times as long as it was supposed to, and ending up with a car that has poor idle quality and a bad tune.

I feel I cut some corners to save $$$ and that it has to do a lot with this whole mess.

And yes, as soon as I get the time to get my car tuned I'll hopefully get the numbers I originally set out to get. I had very high expectations considering I went into this project with so much power with only bolt ons, and one of the best cams for making power that is on the market.

 

I guess the person who just dyno'd 413rwhp with stock heads is going to dyno 470rwhp next and the car from MMS that dyno'd 420rwhp with just the MMS229 cam is going to dyno 480rwhp when he gets some heads.. Oh yeah, not to mention the Z06 who just dyno'd your #'s on stock Z06 heads. I guess that person is going to be the first 500rwhp 346ci.. Dude, just because you started high does not mean you are going to surpase others. You just had a factory freak. Your stock heads could have flowed better than my stock heads.. Now that you have 5.3's. You have lost the MOJO.. Welcome back to reality.. All I ever wanted was 420rwhp. I am having a hard time getting that.. You have almost 440rwhp with a bad tune.. You want to talk about waiting on parts and down time.. No other modder feels sorry for you.. Thats just the way it is.. You have a great set of heads. No matter what you paid for them. You have to be the first person on this board to ever complain about making almost 440rwhp with a bad tune.. For you to say one head is better than another because of flow #'s is BS.. Flow #'s do not tell the whole story. I speak from experience.. Now get that car tuned and hit the track.. I am sure you will be happy with the times.. P.S. Why are you so special? Maybe you have other issues besides your car.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

 

First off, CNC machining provides a more consistent output than a hand port job does. Yes, you may be able to get better numbers (5-10hp) from a GTP head but is that worth 1400 bucks? I can think of tons of things that will yield more than that amount of hp for alot less than the difference in price ($1400) between the two heads.

When you go with a CNC ported head, you know what your gonna get in return.

If I was getting 436rwhp from 10.8:1 I think I'd be convinced of it.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VINCE:
<strong>Dude, just because you started high does not mean you are going to surpase others. You just had a factory freak. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No I didn't, my factory freak dynoed a whopping 300rwhp/317rwtq (which is low by 2001 M6 standards IMO) bone stock and wasn't any faster than other cars like it at the time. I just did every freaking bolt on mod possible to get the power I got.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VINCE:
<strong>You have a great set of heads. No matter what you paid for them.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I never said I didn't have a great said of heads, just that they weren't the best out there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VINCE:
<strong>You have to be the first person on this board to ever complain about making almost 440rwhp with a bad tune</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please reread this Vince:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by verbs:
<strong>I'd be thrilled even with 445rwhp through a full exhaust and 33 spline 3.73 12 bolt with a mild 10.8:1 compression.

Hell, I'm extatic now, I just want to take care of all the little nagging tuning issues.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As you can see, I am happy, just stating that there is more out there for me to squeeze out. That's all.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VINCE:
<strong>For you to say one head is better than another because of flow #'s is BS.. Flow #'s do not tell the whole story. I speak from experience..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know, velocity, etc...

I've seen 4 different people slap on GTP heads on a TR cam and all get close to or right at 60rwhp from just the heads. Maybe all four of them just happened to have shitty heads from the factory <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

My heads didn't help out as much as I've seen GTP's help others IMO. Especially since the TR230 cam should be good for about 40-45rwhp peak on any well breathing car with stock heads.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VINCE:
<strong>Now get that car tuned and hit the track.
I am sure you will be happy with the times..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Soon, very soon, and I'm sure I'll be happy with the results. I'm guessing mid-hi 11's for now till it cools down during winter.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VINCE:
<strong>P.S. Why are you so special? Maybe you have other issues besides your car.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I just had high expectations for a car that came to the project running like a lion. I just like to get maximum out of what I buy. Getting every penny's worth.

<small>[ September 26, 2002, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: verbs ]</small>

 

I think you did get what you paid for.. If you can squeeze out more.. Show the rest of us how.. I would like to know this personally.. If I go by the 60rwhp increase that you mentioned about the GTP heads. I should be able to slap them on my car and dyno 460rwhp with a cutout.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> I dyno'd 390rwhp minus cutout. Add cutout and I would have been at 400rwhp.. Should is exactly what it says, "Should." I hit reality right in the face when I realized how much money I have already spent on my car. I could have paid it off.. I hope you hit 450rwhp. That would give the rest of us something to shoot for..

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by verbs:
judging by a back to back flowing of my heads vs. GTP heads I witnessed on the same bench, and by the better numbers people put out over TEA heads.

QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">same day same bench?lets see the numbers,why complain about your tune get ls-1 edit and tune it yourself,you can do that cant you?
What do you want for your TEA heads I cant stand to see you so unhappy with such a great product.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by H82BBad:
<strong>[QUOTE]same day same bench?lets see the numbers,why complain about your tune get ls-1 edit and tune it yourself,you can do that cant you?
What do you want for your TEA heads I cant stand to see you so unhappy with such a great product.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes the heads were flowed same bench same day. I'll see if I can get the numbers in a few days. All my **** is packed up as I'm moving on Sat.

Jeezus, enought already. I never said TEA's sucked, just that they aren't the best heads out there, but are the best bang for your buck. You guys keep putting words in my mouth. They aren't far off from your GTP's/MTI's I'm sure.

I'm going to be getting LS1 edit in the near future...I'm getting a bunch of people together to go in together so its cheaper. That is why I don't have it already.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by H82BBad:
What do you want for your TEA heads I cant stand to see you so unhappy with such a great product.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Funny, I was thinking of asking the samething.