Fireball

iTrader: (21)

Does he use OEM, viton, etc?

TIA <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

GeorgeC

AFAIK, they're the stock OEM seals. Mine were, anyway.

I can't think of any advantage to using an aftermarket seal...

Jim98TA

Hey Brian. Is the car still smoking?

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

still having idle issues. Nothing comes out at WOT...but at idle its a different story <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

only does it when its fully warmed up. Couple of obervations I made...my oil gets pretty hot from the dynatech headers being right next to the oil filter. I've put some heat wrap on one of the primaries but it still needs more.

Still has leaky collectors which can be part of the problem but I've had the same issue when I throw the car into open loop mode only (set the closed loop enable temp to something rediculous like 250 C)

My thoughts are that my gapless rings are working too well (like I said no smoking at WOT and no smoking out of the oil fill cap with the PCV disabled...this kinda elimates rings IMO). But previously when I pulled the intake I saw oil sitting on the valves.

Put new plugs in...no oil/carbon on the ceramic or strap...but some oil on the threads and maybe some oil/carbon on the inside of the plug

Sometimes it'll smoke initially on cold startup but clear up in 5 seconds (oil coming down valveseals?)

just wondering if a new set of OEM seals would be worth my time or should I just live with it...car runs too damn strong for me to really be concerned about internal problems <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />

but this bit of smoke at idle is killing me <img border="0" alt="[Banging Head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />

SJH

Had the same exact problem.And yes I also ran the gapless rings.
I had oil puffing on startup and when I pulled the intake I saw oil sitting ontop of the valves.

It smokes on startup as it is burning off the oil sitting on top of the piston that dripped down.
I could not figure this problem out. I replaced all the valve seals and that made NO difference.
I finally had to pull the motor as having oil get into my supercharged motor is not good.On all of the piston tops you could see oil had dripped on top of them and then been burned off.
I rebuilt it once again with conventional rings with very large gaps and not a trace of oil is making it into the cyls now.

And I still have about the same intake vacuum.
Those gapless rings can cause some strange problems.
Steve

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

Hmmm...very very interesting.

Fenris Ulf

He uses OEM seals with his 2.02 intake applications.

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

thanks

Go FasTA

Not sure if this could be the case, but I was informed by Brian at TEA that it's important to use a thread sealer on the rocker arm bolts. Did you apply any sealant during the installation? His reason was that on many ported heads, the runner porting actually opens up the rocker arm bolt hole. This can cause some oil to work it's way down into the cylinder.

Just a thought.

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

yes I fixed that

Ebbsnflows

iTrader: (15)

Hmmm...how strange, my car never smoked or used a drop of oil until I installed the GTP heads. Now it smokes upon start up. No smoking during WOT or driving....just at startup.

Also...didn't Moose have a smoking issue after he did GTP's? Did that ever get resolved?

I remember reading something a few months ago, about a gentleman that had smoking issues after a GTP install. Brian...keep me up do date on this.

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

I'll have a better idea when the heads come off this winter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Jim98TA

Would it be possible for one of you guys to post some good pictures of your spark plugs here on the forum? Mark which side is the top (when it is fully threaded into the head) so we can see if there is anything suspicious on the ceramic?

Jim

Jim98TA

Oh, and one other thing for Brian. You know that you are getting oil on the TOP of your valves. So lets trace it back. It is either coming from

-the intake side (PCV) which I believe you have eliminated and have a working system.

-the rocker studs which you have removed and sealed with some kind of sealant

-Or, coming down the valve stem.

You mentioned you are going to pull the heads eventually and have the guides checked. That could be the cause, but if the seal was doing its job, it wouldn't get past the seal to go down the guide. On the LS1s, doesn't the spring actually sit on the base part of the seal? Is it possible that the aftermarket springs are not sitting on the seal properly, and maybe not allowing them to seal right? I haven't seen a good picture of an LS1 valve seal...

Jim

SJH

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Steve,
You said rebuilding with gapped rings took care of your problem, yet the oil was on the top of valves and appeared to drip onto the pistons. I am just trying to figure out how the rings could cause that situation. Did you do any other mods while you had the car apart? Unless the gapless rings were causing enough suction on the down stroke to pull oil past the seals or something, that seems kinda odd. I am not doubting your findings/fix (I know you know your sh@t), just trying to figure things out.

Jim
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The gapless rings seem to impart to much "constant" suction. It can't just be the difference of the extra 1 or 2" of intake vacuum created. They have some sort of odd effect.
Even the instructions that came with the rings, say that the valve guides need to be in PERFECT SHAPE and even NEW guides need to be checked and that the clearance needs to be at the minimum specs or exessive oil consumption will take place.
Well these were heads with about 14K miles on them. The guides measured right at factory tolerance.
I never EVER had a oil problem with my guides before the gapless rings.
It has nothing to do with the pcv system. My ports and intake were clean as a whistle as I use a very effective seperator. Yet when I pulled the intake there was fresh clean oil sitting on top of the intake valves.That blew my mind when I saw that.
Some had as much as a 1/2 teaspoon just sitting on top of the closed valve.I mean clean fresh oil! So the oil must have just been pulled right by the guides and seals.I replaced the seals and it did nothing to help the problem.It never blew oil at wot though. It seemed that idle and cruising is when it pulled the oil.
Interestingly switching to a heavier oil made it much worse. It seems the heavier oil would not drip down as fast over the guides and it would be pulled into the head at a faster rate than a thinnner oil which quickly drips down off the springs and guides.

The plugs began to show oil usage and that was it, I yanked the motor again. And the worst cyls pulling the oil were at 0-2% leakdown.
Now what I find strange is that my intake vacuum was only a bit higher with the gapless rings. Yet I had all sorts of oil control problems.
When I tore it down you could also tell the gapless rings were hard on the cyls on the thrust side.
It was an interesting experiment trying them out.
I only ran them for about 700 miles.

Steve

Jim98TA

This is an interesting phenomenon going on here... When I had seal problems in my Monte, it wouldn't smoke under WOT either after the initial puff. But at idle, it got a little embarassing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Not saying that is your problem, just a little info. How long did you have your plugs in before you pulled them and checked them? Are you having to add any oil, or its just smoking a little? I don't know what is up with a bit of oil on plug threads. There is only one time I can think of that my Monte didn't have that. And it stayed that way for only like 6 mos LOL... I think it is just normal.

Steve,
You said rebuilding with gapped rings took care of your problem, yet the oil was on the top of valves and appeared to drip onto the pistons. I am just trying to figure out how the rings could cause that situation. Did you do any other mods while you had the car apart? Unless the gapless rings were causing enough suction on the down stroke to pull oil past the seals or something, that seems kinda odd. I am not doubting your findings/fix (I know you know your sh@t), just trying to figure things out.

Jim

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

I'm probably gonna take the car down during the off season and have the guides measured (and replaced if necessary)....and *cough* flycut the pistons a bit more *cough* in case I want to put a real radical cam in <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />