NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

This kinda belongs here. I am not talking 1/4 mile. For those of you that know I do Open Road Racing (Nevada Open Road Challenge, Silver State Classic Challenge etc.) and had a fairly lengthy discussion with some of the other racers this last weekend at the SSCC. We have cars that run in excess of 225mph on these runs, there is actually a couple of NASCARs that guys have bought that compete in the unlimited class. I know the stock Fbody with the speed limiter off is capable of 165, then wind resistance and air managment become a REAL issue. After that point it takes HP and torque to push the car any faster. I was in an 02 C5 this weekend with just a cat back and oil, trans and diff. cooler and we cruised at 165mph for at least 15 minutes of the 36 minute run. My car currently has MTI stage 2 LS6 heads and an X1 cam with all of the bolt ons (420-440RWHP no dyno figures yet). I figure the car "should" be able to hit 180mph in May and sustain that speed (barring tire failure). A number of the other racers disagree with me. One guy that has a 98 blown cobra is making 451RWHP and said that he could barely hit 180mph this last sunday and it took him forever to get there. His car is set up like you wouldnt believe (you gotta see this thing). Now I am pretty sure the air managment of the stock 98+ Fbody is better that a cobra but how much horsepower does it take to get some real speed. I know the unlimited class cars need about 700-800 to hit the 220+mph mark. Your talking about a 250hp increase just to gain 40mph. I know the physics of air change drasticly once you get over 160+, but for me to run 180-200mph what is it going to take? I am hoping to have the car ready in May for the run so I need some help here. Any input would be great.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

<small>[ September 25, 2002, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: NataSS Inc ]</small>

Colonel

I've done 180 in my SS with a ~130 HP shot of N2O. It's internally stock with your basic bolt-ons. No headers. Figure 315-320 RWHP stock + about 25 RWHP of bolt-ons + a 130 FWHP shot = about 460 RWHP.

200? That's tough. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

Forgot to mention that nitrous IS NOT an option. this is a sustained 90 mile open road race. Rules say I can use nitrous to try and hit my tech speed through the speed traps but I dont want to risk failure of the engine at that high of a speed when the car throws a rod at 160+mph

Colonel

My example, nitrous or not, still gives you a good idea of what kind of power it takes to run 180.

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Mustangs are like pushing a small brick thru the wind, not as aerodynamic as F-bodies. Your best bet would be to assist your Camaro body with some air dams, possibly remove the outside mirrors, etc... I'd guesstimate 500 rwhp to hit 200 mph in an F-body.

-Tony

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Colonel:
<strong>My example, nitrous or not, still gives you a good idea of what kind of power it takes to run 180.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good point!

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nine Ball:
<strong>Mustangs are like pushing a small brick thru the wind, not as aerodynamic as F-bodies. Your best bet would be to assist your Camaro body with some air dams, possibly remove the outside mirrors, etc... I'd guesstimate 500 rwhp to hit 200 mph in an F-body.

-Tony</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have thought about the air dam issue. Only problem is that you need an air dam that just about scrapes the ground and that would take away from what the radiator gets. Unless I hacked out the the area where the 2 holes are in the nose of the car, removed the foam impact pad and anything else that would obstruct air from getting to the radiator. I have pictures of an unlimited class 96 Z28 that hit 215 on sunday that did that to his nose. But how bad do I want to destroy the front end of the car? I'll get pictures of it up tomorrow.

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

Here are a couple pics of the unlimited class Z28. Notice how he hacked the front to give it air.
<img src="http://www.salug.org/~davidm/sscc/DSCN0512-ssc.jpg" alt=" - " />

Here is the diffusor on it. He said it was unneeded till he went over 180mph. If by using the air dam and diffusor, does it take less HP to go faster?
<img src="http://www.salug.org/~davidm/sscc/DSCN0474-ssc.jpg" alt=" - " />

any thoughts?

30th TA 0219

Well, I know it's ghetto, but Duct Tape!! Do they allow it?!?! I'm talking about hood lines, hatch, etc. Gale banks ran over 200 in a stock bodied 3rd Gen TA, by dropping the front, removing the mirrors, and duct taping around the hood and headligh doors. Anyone who really likes top speed will remember Hot Rod picking up 30+ mph by putting a piece of duct tape behind the gills on the Callaway SledgeHammer vette to get it to 254!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> I would also look into cleaning up the underbody of the car, with come fiberglas or c/f belly pans.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I read a 3rd-gen article where the guy (middle eastern name?) took off the side mirrors, added diffusers and other things to get the car to handle at 180mph.

Powerwise I would think 500rwhp would be plenty I think you could get there with 450rwhp and a light car.

ls1290

iTrader: (20)

Isn't gear ratio important also? Would you not run out of gear if you have 4.56:1 in the rear? To go 200 mph, I would say that 2.73:1 gears would be good.

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 30th TA 0219:
<strong>Well, I know it's ghetto, but Duct Tape!! Do they allow it?!?! I'm talking about hood lines, hatch, etc. Gale banks ran over 200 in a stock bodied 3rd Gen TA, by dropping the front, removing the mirrors, and duct taping around the hood and headligh doors. Anyone who really likes top speed will remember Hot Rod picking up 30+ mph by putting a piece of duct tape behind the gills on the Callaway SledgeHammer vette to get it to 254!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> I would also look into cleaning up the underbody of the car, with come fiberglas or c/f belly pans.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Funny you should mention duct tape. Some of these cars look like they have been hit with a duct tape bomb. When it comes to rules.....well...there really arent any except that you can not exceed your tech speed for the class your running in. I plan on making use of tape over the hood seems, doors and the lines down the side of the car as well as the seems around the back glass.

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ls1290:
<strong>Isn't gear ratio important also? Would you not run out of gear if you have 4.56:1 in the rear? To go 200 mph, I would say that 2.73:1 gears would be good.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">From talking to the unlimited guys they have said a 3:42 is about the best way to go maybe a hair taller with a 6 speed. 2:73 are just to tall and it takes the car to long to wind back up to speed.

Dope

iTrader: (2)

I believe 500-550rwhp on a completely stock bodied car would be good for 200mph. 450rwhp if you had lots of tricks (seal all the seams, ditch the mirrors, air dam, etc).

Proper gearing too of course, I would stick with 3.23s or so.

Dope

Colonel

"I think you could get there with 450rwhp and a light car."

Weight has very little to do with top speed on level ground. It only increases rolling resistance.

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

I think the trick is to manage the flow of air around the car as efficiently as possible thereby lowering the amount of HP needed to reach speeds. Weight doesnt really have anything to do with top end except for the first burst of acceleration like the colonel said. But HP will help you fight throught the airflow....

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

get am air dam made, one that you can take off in a coupele of mins.

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

I have tried working with a couple companies but no one makes anything functional, only aesthetic

BurnOut

iTrader: (1)

30th already hit on this, but I'd look long and hard at air management under the car. The smoother it is, the less drag you'll get. As for the rear diffuser, etc..., it is my belief that while it won't help you (aerodynamically) that much, but it'll make the car much more controllable at speed.

On the other hand, it may help reduce drag by reducing the size (or intensity) of the vortices that will result as air comes off the back/sides of the car.

Regarding power, I have two words for you: forced induction. Seriously, a low boost setup on top of what you've already got should turn the trick. Just make sure that you have a good oil cooler and a damn big radiator, and I think that the power/reliability will be there. The rest will be air management.

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

I have thought of that but worry about the reliability of it. Turning over 5800 rpms for over 37 minutes is hard enough on a motor, then you slap boost on it and it gets real iffy