500 rwhp streeet driven
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,248
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City, MO
Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven I'm not sure. I know it was an upgraded fuel system as per GWP's specs. Larger injectors, programming, pump, etc.
Yip, I'd guess it was detonation. That is one of my points here. You are on borrowed time. One mishap and it is all over. If he'd had forged pistons, it may well have survived.
Yip, I'd guess it was detonation. That is one of my points here. You are on borrowed time. One mishap and it is all over. If he'd had forged pistons, it may well have survived.
Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven It'll works but for how long? The only way to do it reliably is with a built bottom end. You can easily make 500rwhp with a SC/heads/cam/bolt-ons. Probably make a bunch more than that in fact.
Dope
Dope
Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven We have a local club here in Tampa....there are two LS1 stock bottom end cars dynoing over 500 rwhp. Both are H&C cars with Vortec blower setups. Not only are they surviving....they both race roadcourses on a weekly basis. I dont mean like autocross...I mean full road race courses Like Sebring. I would venture to say that one of those cars has atleast 1000 miles on road courses being hammered on constanlty. Thats tough duty! Go to BADRAP.net and lookup the SN Speedracer. He has some great vids as well. Car is currently down.....not motor related...he put it into a wall at 100mph <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven Here is his webpage 524 rwhp road racing SS with stock bottom end click here
Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by DenzSS:
<strong>I'm not sure. I know it was an upgraded fuel system as per GWP's specs. Larger injectors, programming, pump, etc.
Yip, I'd guess it was detonation. That is one of my points here. You are on borrowed time. One mishap and it is all over. If he'd had forged pistons, it may well have survived.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly my point...If it was detonation, than the cracked piston was due to an improper tune or lack or quality of fuel. This is NOT the fault of the engine. A built, forged, bulletproof engine will NOT stand up to an improper tune or lack of fuel. It is as simple as that. 500 rwhp is no problem at all for a daily driven Ls1. <img border="0" alt="[Banging Head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />
<strong>I'm not sure. I know it was an upgraded fuel system as per GWP's specs. Larger injectors, programming, pump, etc.
Yip, I'd guess it was detonation. That is one of my points here. You are on borrowed time. One mishap and it is all over. If he'd had forged pistons, it may well have survived.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly my point...If it was detonation, than the cracked piston was due to an improper tune or lack or quality of fuel. This is NOT the fault of the engine. A built, forged, bulletproof engine will NOT stand up to an improper tune or lack of fuel. It is as simple as that. 500 rwhp is no problem at all for a daily driven Ls1. <img border="0" alt="[Banging Head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
TECH Regular
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
From: the moon
Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven the stock pistons are very brittle and won't tolerate much abuse.I ran a long long time with them but in the back of my head I always knew they could crack a ringland, as when they get hit with a certain frequency from even modest detonation they tend to crack.Sort of like the fat lady singing and breaking a wine glass.
A good forged piston will take MUCH more abuse than a stock hyper piston will.
I have my own shop press and when I swapped out a couple stock pistons off the rods they cracked in half.
Just like breaking a vase or something.
A good 2618 alloy forged piston won't crack. Simple as that.
You can make them last with a good safe tune.But you have to keep in mind when your setting up your tune, that your 500hp motor has a dime store piston in it.
A good forged piston will take MUCH more abuse than a stock hyper piston will.
I have my own shop press and when I swapped out a couple stock pistons off the rods they cracked in half.
Just like breaking a vase or something.
A good 2618 alloy forged piston won't crack. Simple as that.
You can make them last with a good safe tune.But you have to keep in mind when your setting up your tune, that your 500hp motor has a dime store piston in it.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Jupiter, FL
Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven wow. so if the car did have some forged pistons put in it, would the rest of the bottom end hold up to mid 500's? This information is great!
So the story is my father (2002 z28) and a close friend (2002 ss) both bought camaros recently and another friend of mine is starting to take interest in a ws6. Right now he has a FULLY (many many hours and $'s)worked eclipse that has run down a mid 12 z06 (4-5 car lengths before he shutdown) and kept up with a viper spraying a 150 shot on the highway. His next project might be a ws6 and I just was collecting some forced induction info for him.
P.S. the dsm stories are not BS, and I'm not trying to compare the 2. Just to let you know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
So the story is my father (2002 z28) and a close friend (2002 ss) both bought camaros recently and another friend of mine is starting to take interest in a ws6. Right now he has a FULLY (many many hours and $'s)worked eclipse that has run down a mid 12 z06 (4-5 car lengths before he shutdown) and kept up with a viper spraying a 150 shot on the highway. His next project might be a ws6 and I just was collecting some forced induction info for him.
P.S. the dsm stories are not BS, and I'm not trying to compare the 2. Just to let you know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven Heads cam and the right turbos. Run 4 PSI and get 505RWHP. Tuned correctly you can run that all day on a stock bottom end. I know I do.
Course I have only 900 miles on it. Harlan had what....2000 miles. Also turbos don't hammer your head on the highway cruising along like my NA car did.
Course I have only 900 miles on it. Harlan had what....2000 miles. Also turbos don't hammer your head on the highway cruising along like my NA car did.
10 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,755
Likes: 2
From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven I do think that most of the blown motors with blowers and turbos were caused by detonation. Thats what happened to me. When people try to squeeze all the power out they often end up detonating. It seemes like the guys that keep a close eye on it are still running. I did do a forged bottom end on the rebuild for the strength and insurance. I just hope i'll be O.K. using an aluminum 422 with the blower, because so many are going iron.
TECH Regular
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
From: the moon
Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven Your probably right Chasgiv because that is a pretty detonation resistant combo using only 4psi to make 500RWHP.
But adding heads and cam aren't even needed for close to 600RWHP with a turbo or blower.
So you could just put the money into the shortblock and turn up the boost and make a lot more power safely for about the same cost as heads and cam.
You can get good 2618 forged pistons for 500-700$.
Block hone 150$ or so.
rings 100$
toss in some better rod bolts- 75$
good bearings- rod and main- 80$
arp head studs and better gaskets-350$
rebalance crank-100$
Piston R&R about 80$
that's a pretty good way to make a shortblock handle an easy 700hp for only about 1600$ in parts and machining cost.
If you can't do a engine assembly yourself then it will cost you a lot more.
But the fact is these pistons are a big weak link for any engine running boost or n20.
I ran mine until I cracked one. Got my moneys worth out them that is for sure.
Was running 200shots for a long time going back to 1998 before I finally cracked one.I got lucky and caught it doing a leakdown and plug checks before any damage was done except to my wallet.
Some guys don't get so lucky.
And I doubt a lot of guys take the precautions I
do.
Also you guys are completely ignoring the fact a stock factory shortblock has a tight top ring gap for poweradder.
Run it to lean and it butts. Then say goodbye to a ringland even if it never detonated.
Steve
But adding heads and cam aren't even needed for close to 600RWHP with a turbo or blower.
So you could just put the money into the shortblock and turn up the boost and make a lot more power safely for about the same cost as heads and cam.
You can get good 2618 forged pistons for 500-700$.
Block hone 150$ or so.
rings 100$
toss in some better rod bolts- 75$
good bearings- rod and main- 80$
arp head studs and better gaskets-350$
rebalance crank-100$
Piston R&R about 80$
that's a pretty good way to make a shortblock handle an easy 700hp for only about 1600$ in parts and machining cost.
If you can't do a engine assembly yourself then it will cost you a lot more.
But the fact is these pistons are a big weak link for any engine running boost or n20.
I ran mine until I cracked one. Got my moneys worth out them that is for sure.
Was running 200shots for a long time going back to 1998 before I finally cracked one.I got lucky and caught it doing a leakdown and plug checks before any damage was done except to my wallet.
Some guys don't get so lucky.
And I doubt a lot of guys take the precautions I
do.
Also you guys are completely ignoring the fact a stock factory shortblock has a tight top ring gap for poweradder.
Run it to lean and it butts. Then say goodbye to a ringland even if it never detonated.
Steve
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
From: san diego
Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven a friend of mine has a 2000 Z28 with a vortech supercharger with 11 PSI and he pulled 498 RWHP before his holley intake, TB, water box, and Alcohol injection.
I'm sure he is well over 500RWHP with stock internals and he is running great. Although I am a firm believer of builing the motor to take the power.
At least upgrade the rod bolts if you are gonna run some boost or a bug shot of N20
I'm sure he is well over 500RWHP with stock internals and he is running great. Although I am a firm believer of builing the motor to take the power.
At least upgrade the rod bolts if you are gonna run some boost or a bug shot of N20
