500 rwhp streeet driven
10-01-2002, 11:22 AM
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500 rwhp streeet driven A friend is considering building a ws6 and I was kind helping with considering it. What would you do for a street car buildup that makes 500 or more rwhp. The key thing is streetability. I was thinking along the following....
- stock bottom end
-Exhaust
-y-pipe/longtubes
-cam
-supercharger kit
-heads? (with valves,springs,etc..)
As far as the engine is concerned do you think these parts could be used together to make 500 rwhp and daily drivable?
P.S. not sure which section of the forum this thread belongs in, sorry if this is the wrong place <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
<small>[ October 01, 2002, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: AndyL ]</small>
- stock bottom end
-Exhaust
-y-pipe/longtubes
-cam
-supercharger kit
-heads? (with valves,springs,etc..)
As far as the engine is concerned do you think these parts could be used together to make 500 rwhp and daily drivable?
P.S. not sure which section of the forum this thread belongs in, sorry if this is the wrong place <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
<small>[ October 01, 2002, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: AndyL ]</small>
10-01-2002, 01:19 PM
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Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven 383 Stroker
Twin Turbo kit
Heads/Cam
Iron Block
100 shot of N20 (for fun)
Sheetmetal intake
Other forged internals
WOOOHOOO!
That's more than 500RWHP, huh? Hehehe.
Nick
Twin Turbo kit
Heads/Cam
Iron Block
100 shot of N20 (for fun)
Sheetmetal intake
Other forged internals
WOOOHOOO!
That's more than 500RWHP, huh? Hehehe.
Nick
10-01-2002, 01:33 PM
#3
Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven Do what I did. Heads, cam, longtubes, nitrous. 500rwhp with stock bottom end is easy. Cost is relatively low. Reliability is high as long as you don't go crazy with the nitrous jetting.
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2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
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10-01-2002, 02:17 PM
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Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven 500rwhp isn't going to live long on a stock shortblock.
Mild heads, cam, forged pistons and rods, head studs, good rod bolts, fuel system, and 5-6# of boost would through you into the 550rwhp range and be pretty damn safe. If you had the fuel system behind it, you could easily bump into the 650s with a little more boost.
500 is basically the ragged edge of a stock shortblock holding together. It will live for a while, but not for long.
Mild heads, cam, forged pistons and rods, head studs, good rod bolts, fuel system, and 5-6# of boost would through you into the 550rwhp range and be pretty damn safe. If you had the fuel system behind it, you could easily bump into the 650s with a little more boost.
500 is basically the ragged edge of a stock shortblock holding together. It will live for a while, but not for long.
10-01-2002, 03:52 PM
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Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven I don't know what idiots are telling you that it won't live with a stock bottom end but it will. Mine has 543 horses and 475 torque with heads a small cam and 8lbs of boost, other than killing my head gaskets when I leaned out a little it runs great. I beat the **** out of it almost all the time, gas milage sucks though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
10-01-2002, 03:55 PM
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Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven rwb--who built your car?
BTW--is is pretty well known that the stock shortblock won't live for long at that power level. How long has your car been running at that power level?
If you're going to call people idiots, you'd better do your research. There are a hell of a lot of folks who have tanked a stock shortblock running that power level. I'm not talking about people who don't know what they are doing either. That is just beyond its capabilities. You can run it for a while, but it definitely isn't a great idea.
<small>[ October 01, 2002, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: DenzSS ]</small>
BTW--is is pretty well known that the stock shortblock won't live for long at that power level. How long has your car been running at that power level?
If you're going to call people idiots, you'd better do your research. There are a hell of a lot of folks who have tanked a stock shortblock running that power level. I'm not talking about people who don't know what they are doing either. That is just beyond its capabilities. You can run it for a while, but it definitely isn't a great idea.
<small>[ October 01, 2002, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: DenzSS ]</small>
10-01-2002, 04:10 PM
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Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven It all depends how much money and what kind of power adder he wants. Right now, 500rwHP N/A is out of the question, but not far off. Id personally do an all-bore motor, GTP LS6 heads, a reasonable cam, and a shot of nitrous. This would be a great daily driver with lots of power, and pretty cheap compared to supercharging, etc.
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10-01-2002, 04:19 PM
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Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven As far as 500 rwhp being the limit, plenty of shops have proven otherwise... Ligenfelter even gives a 2 yr warranty on their 500 hp to the wheels stage 1 turbo kit on the stock shortblock.
10-01-2002, 04:22 PM
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Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven Throw in a set of forged flattop pistons with valve reliefs, use stock rods with GOOD ARP Bolts, stock crank, ported 6L heads (9:1 comp with good studs and gaskets) and a blower grind cam.
That with 8-10#s boost would make ~550-650RWHP and be dead reliable with good fuel system and 42# injectors/LS1 edit tuning on 93 octane.
Cheers,
Chris
ps- Raymers new single turbo kit is going to be awesome. I would look into that with the forged piston/6L headed combo <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
That with 8-10#s boost would make ~550-650RWHP and be dead reliable with good fuel system and 42# injectors/LS1 edit tuning on 93 octane.
Cheers,
Chris
ps- Raymers new single turbo kit is going to be awesome. I would look into that with the forged piston/6L headed combo <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
10-01-2002, 04:34 PM
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Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by DenzSS:
<strong>rwb--who built your car?
BTW--is is pretty well known that the stock shortblock won't live for long at that power level. How long has your car been running at that power level?
If you're going to call people idiots, you'd better do your research. There are a hell of a lot of folks who have tanked a stock shortblock running that power level. I'm not talking about people who don't know what they are doing either. That is just beyond its capabilities. You can run it for a while, but it definitely isn't a great idea.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My stock shortblock now has 82,000 miles and I still spray the **** out of it. 500rwhp can definitely be considered reliable on the stock bottom. Still my daily driver. I wish the clutch and rearend was HALF as reliable as the engine.
<strong>rwb--who built your car?
BTW--is is pretty well known that the stock shortblock won't live for long at that power level. How long has your car been running at that power level?
If you're going to call people idiots, you'd better do your research. There are a hell of a lot of folks who have tanked a stock shortblock running that power level. I'm not talking about people who don't know what they are doing either. That is just beyond its capabilities. You can run it for a while, but it definitely isn't a great idea.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My stock shortblock now has 82,000 miles and I still spray the **** out of it. 500rwhp can definitely be considered reliable on the stock bottom. Still my daily driver. I wish the clutch and rearend was HALF as reliable as the engine.
10-01-2002, 04:46 PM
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Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven Where the heck did the idea of a stock bottom end not being good for 500 RWHP? That's laughable! <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />
I don't see a reliable 500 RWHP being any problem at all with N20. I mean, that's only about a 200 shot on a bone stock engine (that's been done) or a measly 100 shot on a heads/cam combo (you really can't tell me that a 100 shot is dangerous when any common sense at all is used.) Big deal. There must be hundreds of folks on this board alone doing it.
<small>[ October 01, 2002, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Colonel ]</small>
I don't see a reliable 500 RWHP being any problem at all with N20. I mean, that's only about a 200 shot on a bone stock engine (that's been done) or a measly 100 shot on a heads/cam combo (you really can't tell me that a 100 shot is dangerous when any common sense at all is used.) Big deal. There must be hundreds of folks on this board alone doing it.
<small>[ October 01, 2002, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Colonel ]</small>
10-01-2002, 05:08 PM
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Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven My car was built by MC Racing, and I've put about 10,000 miles on it with 500 plus hp. There are plenty of people running around with more than 500 horses on a daily driver. I stand on my earlier comments!
10-01-2002, 05:33 PM
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Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Colonel:
<strong>Where the heck did the idea of a stock bottom end not being good for 500 RWHP? That's laughable! <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />
I don't see a reliable 500 RWHP being any problem at all with N20. I mean, that's only about a 200 shot on a bone stock engine (that's been done) or a measly 100 shot on a heads/cam combo (you really can't tell me that a 100 shot is dangerous when any common sense at all is used.) Big deal. There must be hundreds of folks on this board alone doing it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With nitrous I'll definitely agree. A lot of guys run a pretty healthy shot with a good fuel system and it does wonderfully. However, the original post was about a blower. With a blower or a turbo it is a different story. Just go in the FI section and ask around, you'll get the same answer.
RWB--I know your car. I did part of the tuning on it. When you kept getting on it even though the fuel pressure was dropping hard, you could have cracked a piston or a ring as easy as you blew a head gasket.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> There are plenty of people running around with more than 500 horses on a daily driver. I stand on my earlier comments! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please name a few that are supercharged or turbocharged daily drivers over 500rwhp on the stock bottom end.
I'm not going to argue about the nitrous cars, that is pretty well proven. I am going to stand by my comments when you're talking about supercharging or turbocharging.
Is lingenfelter's 500HP turbo kit putting out 500 at the wheels or the crank? Big difference.
<small>[ October 01, 2002, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: DenzSS ]</small>
<strong>Where the heck did the idea of a stock bottom end not being good for 500 RWHP? That's laughable! <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />
I don't see a reliable 500 RWHP being any problem at all with N20. I mean, that's only about a 200 shot on a bone stock engine (that's been done) or a measly 100 shot on a heads/cam combo (you really can't tell me that a 100 shot is dangerous when any common sense at all is used.) Big deal. There must be hundreds of folks on this board alone doing it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With nitrous I'll definitely agree. A lot of guys run a pretty healthy shot with a good fuel system and it does wonderfully. However, the original post was about a blower. With a blower or a turbo it is a different story. Just go in the FI section and ask around, you'll get the same answer.
RWB--I know your car. I did part of the tuning on it. When you kept getting on it even though the fuel pressure was dropping hard, you could have cracked a piston or a ring as easy as you blew a head gasket.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> There are plenty of people running around with more than 500 horses on a daily driver. I stand on my earlier comments! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please name a few that are supercharged or turbocharged daily drivers over 500rwhp on the stock bottom end.
I'm not going to argue about the nitrous cars, that is pretty well proven. I am going to stand by my comments when you're talking about supercharging or turbocharging.
Is lingenfelter's 500HP turbo kit putting out 500 at the wheels or the crank? Big difference.
<small>[ October 01, 2002, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: DenzSS ]</small>
10-01-2002, 05:43 PM
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Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven Funny, I never saw you working on my car. As for my fuel pressure dropping, it did it 3 times. Mark and Chris said it never did it to them. Dropping hard? It dropped 9 psi each time.
10-01-2002, 06:15 PM
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Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven Oddly enough, I did. I spent the better part of two days with Chris on the dyno doing LS1edit tuning.
9psi is good drop in fuel pressure.
I'm not saying the engine won't last for a bit, but it is on borrowed time. My opinion of course.
9psi is good drop in fuel pressure.
I'm not saying the engine won't last for a bit, but it is on borrowed time. My opinion of course.
10-01-2002, 07:47 PM
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Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven LPE's kit is stated as 500 horsepower at the wheels. I'm sure it is a litle conservative.
A few other tuners are putting out cars above 500 rwhp on stock blocks with superchargers also...
A few other tuners are putting out cars above 500 rwhp on stock blocks with superchargers also...
10-01-2002, 09:01 PM
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Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by DenzSS:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Colonel:
<strong>Where the heck did the idea of a stock bottom end not being good for 500 RWHP? That's laughable! <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />
I don't see a reliable 500 RWHP being any problem at all with N20. I mean, that's only about a 200 shot on a bone stock engine (that's been done) or a measly 100 shot on a heads/cam combo (you really can't tell me that a 100 shot is dangerous when any common sense at all is used.) Big deal. There must be hundreds of folks on this board alone doing it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With nitrous I'll definitely agree. A lot of guys run a pretty healthy shot with a good fuel system and it does wonderfully. However, the original post was about a blower. With a blower or a turbo it is a different story. Just go in the FI section and ask around, you'll get the same answer.
RWB--I know your car. I did part of the tuning on it. When you kept getting on it even though the fuel pressure was dropping hard, you could have cracked a piston or a ring as easy as you blew a head gasket.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> There are plenty of people running around with more than 500 horses on a daily driver. I stand on my earlier comments! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please name a few that are supercharged or turbocharged daily drivers over 500rwhp on the stock bottom end.
I'm not going to argue about the nitrous cars, that is pretty well proven. I am going to stand by my comments when you're talking about supercharging or turbocharging.
Is lingenfelter's 500HP turbo kit putting out 500 at the wheels or the crank? Big difference.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm sorry but this post makes very little sense... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> NO ENGINE will last when run too lean. What's your point? This has NOTHING to do with the bottom end being reliable. As for a boosted application it should actually be easier on the stock shortblock than using Nitrous if both are set up properly. Nitrous gives an instant hit of torque while a boosted application comes in slower.
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Colonel:
<strong>Where the heck did the idea of a stock bottom end not being good for 500 RWHP? That's laughable! <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />
I don't see a reliable 500 RWHP being any problem at all with N20. I mean, that's only about a 200 shot on a bone stock engine (that's been done) or a measly 100 shot on a heads/cam combo (you really can't tell me that a 100 shot is dangerous when any common sense at all is used.) Big deal. There must be hundreds of folks on this board alone doing it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With nitrous I'll definitely agree. A lot of guys run a pretty healthy shot with a good fuel system and it does wonderfully. However, the original post was about a blower. With a blower or a turbo it is a different story. Just go in the FI section and ask around, you'll get the same answer.
RWB--I know your car. I did part of the tuning on it. When you kept getting on it even though the fuel pressure was dropping hard, you could have cracked a piston or a ring as easy as you blew a head gasket.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> There are plenty of people running around with more than 500 horses on a daily driver. I stand on my earlier comments! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please name a few that are supercharged or turbocharged daily drivers over 500rwhp on the stock bottom end.
I'm not going to argue about the nitrous cars, that is pretty well proven. I am going to stand by my comments when you're talking about supercharging or turbocharging.
Is lingenfelter's 500HP turbo kit putting out 500 at the wheels or the crank? Big difference.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm sorry but this post makes very little sense... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> NO ENGINE will last when run too lean. What's your point? This has NOTHING to do with the bottom end being reliable. As for a boosted application it should actually be easier on the stock shortblock than using Nitrous if both are set up properly. Nitrous gives an instant hit of torque while a boosted application comes in slower.
10-01-2002, 09:23 PM
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Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm sorry but this post makes very little sense... NO ENGINE will last when run too lean. What's your point? This has NOTHING to do with the bottom end being reliable. As for a boosted application it should actually be easier on the stock shortblock than using Nitrous if both are set up properly. Nitrous gives an instant hit of torque while a boosted application comes in slower. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was referring specifically to rwb on that one. Sorry for any confusion.
Ok. I'll change my opinion when people start posting examples of 500+rwhp supercharged or turbocharged cars with a stock shortblock that have lasted any decent amount of time.
RWB--I understand that you don't care if you tank your shortblock. The discussion in this post, that you disputed, was if a supercharged 500rwhp stock shortblock setup would last. I say that it won't last for long.
For example: In the last couple of days, a GWP tuned (very conservatively I might add--good job guys) 8# D1SC car with a stock shortblock that was putting down 508rwhp cracked a piston here in KC. The car was running great, good A/F, no problems. Blam--cracked piston.
Ok. I'll change my opinion when people start posting examples of 500+rwhp supercharged or turbocharged cars with a stock shortblock that have lasted any decent amount of time.
RWB--I understand that you don't care if you tank your shortblock. The discussion in this post, that you disputed, was if a supercharged 500rwhp stock shortblock setup would last. I say that it won't last for long.
For example: In the last couple of days, a GWP tuned (very conservatively I might add--good job guys) 8# D1SC car with a stock shortblock that was putting down 508rwhp cracked a piston here in KC. The car was running great, good A/F, no problems. Blam--cracked piston.
10-01-2002, 09:36 PM
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Re: 500 rwhp streeet driven Cracked Piston? Sounds like detonation to me. What kind of fuel system?
<small>[ October 01, 2002, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: cantdrv65 ]</small>
<small>[ October 01, 2002, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: cantdrv65 ]</small>