Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Chromoly HD DS
Moser 9"
4.11's
Tractech soft locker

This converter is amazingly streetable, it feels pretty tight actually.

Tony we'll weigh at the Thunder Shootout I won't be lighter than 3450 with the new hood and battery bet on that.

I think the car is running rich, I'll autotap and test as part of my testing on the street.

Shane that's a lot of loss but I'll tell you that the 9" takes a lot of abuse.

H82BBad

John I would say you have way to much injector.I would try a 28 or 30 and go from there.

Also a compression check wont show you anything compared to a leak down test.
I have seen a car pick up 30 rwhp from a switch to 28 lb injecters from 30's.

I also want to ad I think it is BS to jump in here and kick a guy when he is having problems,Just to satisfy a personal agenda.
I know some of you are joking but after all John has been through trying to get this combo right,I feel if you dont have anything good to say,or any solutions for the problem just STFU.

Good luck man

<small>[ October 01, 2002, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: H82BBad ]</small>

John B

iTrader: (10)

PSJ, one thing that might immediately get you the 10.99 is to put your air filter back on! When I was dyno tuning after putting on my ported heads I was trying everything to understand the impact on the dyno to tweak a few extra HP. Bottom line was when I pulled my air filter I immediately lost almost 10 RWHP due to the motor running richer and gained it all back when I put the filter back on....still doesn't make sense to me!

I ran your track MPH numbers on the "back of an envelope" and it appears that you are down a bit in HP compared to your dyno numbers. This raises several questions.....
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do you still have the stock fuel pump and have you replaced the fuel filter recently?</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What is your FP at WOT?</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Have you taped a FP gauge to your windshield and made any high RPM blasts on your favorite back road to make sure that your FP isn't dropping in high gear?</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Have your ATAP'd recently in high gear to understand your timing, KR and observed whether you are rich or lean based on LTFT's and the O2's?</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

SJH

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I feel if you dont have anything good to say,or any solutions for the problem just STFU</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"STFU"?
Maybe you need to relax a bit there Rambo, this isn't the Miss Manners forum.

I would hate to think John is so thin skinned he can't take a little ribbing on his own UBB.
I have met John several times.
We have our differences I am sure of that, but he is a car guy and I am a car guy.
So it's all cool in the end, after all it's just cars!
Steve

H82BBad

did the shoe fit?

JimmyKash

Was the cam degreed when it was installed or no?

might want to be sure of IC of the cam

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by XLR8NSS:
<strong>John, those white top injectors are like 38# injectors right but, what fuel pressure are they rated at? I think 43.5psi? If so they should be plenty big enough to support over 550fly hp @ 58-60psi. Maybe you should throw some 42# SVO injectors in there and tune them in but, if the wideband isn't showing a lean condition I wouldn't bother.

I was thinking you were still running the PYE converter and was wondering if the lockup clutch was dragging the engine down but, you have Colonel's old 'verter so thats not a problem.

Definately get the full FTRA done. There is a difference between just the FRA and FTRA. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Now, I'm going to say this just to throw it out there...not to jinx you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> Is the tranny OK? It seems you keep having shift point problems and low trap speeds(relative <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). Could it be the trans slipping a little? <img border="0" alt="[kaboom]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bomb.gif" />

John

Oh yeah, run the smallest tire you can still hook decently on. Most of the time just a little bit of spin will show bigger MPH at the exspense of E.T(just a little).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">-wideband before did not show issues with A/F.
-Col's old verter is a TPE just looser than my old one.
-Trans slipping not sure we did not think so at the track... I'd have to ask Intmd8 if the shift points he put in for the car make sense or if we are adjusting for a slipping trans.
-Feeling is that now my car will not hook on a 26 due to the torque.
-FTRA is not going to give me 3-4mph.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Did tune on wideband/dynojet.

27 degrees of timing.

Have not autotapped last two times I got rid of it and was going to use a Scanmaster but I need more data than that.

This is all thru my 3" dual/12 inch Borla XR1 muffler setup with dumps... Came off Bob K's 9.1@150mph Renegade Stang.

Had some 'o2s are lazy and slow' codes but they have not come back.

Col what maf did you run?

I have heard of bad maf's hurting rwhp by a lot in some cases.

I think 122.5mph for 450rwhp makes sense, I want to know how/where/why I can get 124-126mph.

Colonel

I ran a standard GMS and then an 85mm GMS. Same power.

If the MAF is throwing your mixture off you'll see it in your O2 readings. Get Autotapped (again) and quit guessing if there's something wrong with your engine's tuning. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

P.S. Timing could be better, IMO.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

ARE, MTI, Cartek and Speed all suggested 27-28 degrees of timing...

And 400-436ci folks running a stock unported, descreened MAF? Can the stock MAF support this size engine?

How can I tell a Pace vs a SLP 85 mm MAF apart?

XLR8NSS

iTrader: (4)

FTRA will definately not get you 3-4mph...I just meant that it will help. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

If you want 3-4mph more you need to lighten that ***** up. <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

I agree with Steve on the checking the shortblock idea. You've already taken care of the topend, maybe the bottom is going bad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

Steve, stop being a bully. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

John

JAS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Had some 'o2s are lazy and slow' codes but they have not come back.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">John, you spend $$$$ on new heads/cam and convertor but you won't change out O2's? I don't think the O2's majically got better if they were on their way out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Col what maf did you run?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">John, the MAF doesn't mean DICK. A PROPERLY tuned MAF is all equal. Use a stock MAF and reduce that variable. If not, use a VIRGIN LS6 MAF, use the scales that are known and adjust JUST the lower frequency range (upto ~3600hz). If you want the proper adjustment percentages, let me know, it's NOT a single percentage change across an entire frequency range as is so common on the net. Changing MAF's like no tomorrow will get you nowhere.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is all thru my 3" dual/12 inch Borla XR1 muffler setup with dumps... Came off Bob K's 9.1@150mph Renegade Stang.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just because it is a PROPER setup for a Stang with that power level DOES NOT mean it's the PROPER setup for you John.

****, I know your thinking I'm being a dick and all, but I want to see that thing run right. Quit shooting in the dark. Do the basics, don't be changing injectors, mafs, etc until you understand them.

I mean, WHY would you get rid of a datalogging tool to go with a scanmaster? What does it tell you about the ENTIRE run?

Sometimes, you just confuse the crap out of me. Actually, most of the time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sorry, I didn't "sugar coat" my reply. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> I'll leave that for the rest of the guys.

John

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I'm at 3490-3500 raceweight. At this racweight this car should go 10.7-10.8's all day long. As I said, I am down 20-30rwhp and it shows by the performance of the car.

I have absolutely no interest in JUST going 10.99 that's crappy for this combo.

I see H/C/I local guys now going 119mph with gears and the same parts, only with 80 less cubes.

I'm a believer in the FTRA but I'm looking at the issue here, the car is not making enuff rwhp and it's showing at the track.

I'm willing to swap maf's, plugs -1000 miles on these, plugs wires, even injectors, and retune it, but I haven't figured out why the combo does 455rwhp/531tq (unlocked) it should do 470-480rwhp unlocked.

XLR8NSS

iTrader: (4)

Awful lot of John's and Steve's in this thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

John <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

JAS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by XLR8NSS:
<strong>Awful lot of John's and Steve's in this thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

John <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Atleast we all agree to disagree! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

This is my second or third set of 02 sensors on the car in the last 12 months. No I am not cheap.

I am more worried about the MAF not working properly. Does a messed up MAF do anything particular in Autotap?

What's the difference 'tween an LS6 MAF and a normal MAF on the dyno with a big motor? Is there any?

ARE is reccomending I run TR6's, I think I am running TR5's right now at .048.

Bob's stang dynoed 750rwhp with this mufflers they are straight thru.

I'm willing to run dual cutouts at the track but will not run open headers that is not the approach I want to take.

XLR8NSS

iTrader: (4)

Two things you need to check.

1) Shortblock, like SJH recommended.

2) Transmission, maybe take it by FLP and have them take it out and go thru it.

Those two things right there can totally kill the power if not right. IMHO

John

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Sure I can do a compression test but this motor FWIW uses no fluids it really surprises me I don't use any oil at all.

BradWS6

iTrader: (3)

John did the car back fire again?

I would check the motor like others said <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Do you still have the stock fuel pump and have you replaced the fuel filter recently?
ARE/ Racetronix single intank with dedicated wiring, have not replaced fuel filter since last year.

What is your FP at WOT?
56-60, 60 at idle.
Have you taped a FP gauge to your windshield and made any high RPM blasts on your favorite back road to make sure that your FP isn't dropping in high gear?
No, but I have a pillar fuel pressure gauge. I had that problem before, hence going tot the new intank, stock pump was going down to 35psi.

Have your ATAP'd recently in high gear to understand your timing, KR and observed whether you are rich or lean based on LTFT's and the O2's?
I totally have not. I need to do that. Car does a few things which leads me to believe that the A/F might need attention.

...

Cam was installed by Speed Inc. so it's degreed however it should be degreed no fear there.

...

I should restate, I am looking for 10.7@125mph is that a fair number for 3450 raceweight? I'll have FTRA and the small battery on this weekend. I am waiting on my new 20 lb hood. I'm actively looking for 26" slicks.

...

Research says I can go down to maybe 30lb svo's? I wonder if my 39.5 bosch's are hard to calibrate?

<small>[ October 02, 2002, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Pro Stock John ]</small>