Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Howdy...

Ran Dragula at the MFBA US41 rental on 9/28 and the car went:

1700 DA
78% humidity
800 ft above sea level
3500 raceweight

.521
1.501 60 ft
4.488 330
6.554 594 ft
7.016 1/8
97.40 1/8
9.186 1000
11.020 1/4
122.62 1/4

I installed Col's old 10.06 converter and FRA.

Before that, 2 week prior, I went:

.732
1.53
4.499
7.026
97.81
9.202
11.04
122.38 (new shift points, only change)

The week before that, I went:

.670
1.56
4.608
7.153
97.22
9.339
11.186
122.05

Last year I went 11.15@120mph on 26's, but this year all my runs are on 28's.

Something is not right in paradise.

Car drives great, and most of my runs were on pump gas except this past weekend I put in 3 gallons of 100 octane because it was so hot.

So...

What's going on?

My old dyno #'s are 439rwhp/477tq unlocked
My new dyno #'s are 452rwhp/531tq unlocked.

This is on the same dyno BTW.

So the facts:
Car should go 124-126mph
Car is 122.5 vs H/C cars going 119 same day.

I feel that we need to check the following items that I have had in the car for a couple of years...

-SLP 85mm MAF
-MSD plug wires
-Bosch white injectors

Something is limiting the hp on the car. I never checked the injectors when I got them from this other shop, maybe they are too small.

Maybe the MAF is damaged.

I feel that the car should dyno 475rwhp and run 125mph... sounds about right don't you think? I am coming to the realization that I have to look at those RWHP numbers, plus the fact that I make 450rwhp at 4500rpms, and the hp is flat from there to 6500.. and the peak is at 5500rwhp, something must be causing that...

Check out these launch pics from Saturday:

http://www.pbase.com/image/5269389
http://www.pbase.com/image/5269394
Series of 4 shots (thx Roy)
http://www.pbase.com/image/5269910
http://www.pbase.com/image/5269911
http://www.pbase.com/image/5269912
http://www.pbase.com/image/5281172

<img src="http://www.boxofwires.com/images/psjlift.jpg" alt=" - " />

<small>[ October 01, 2002, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Pro Stock John ]</small>

XLR8NSS

iTrader: (4)

John, those white top injectors are like 38# injectors right but, what fuel pressure are they rated at? I think 43.5psi? If so they should be plenty big enough to support over 550fly hp @ 58-60psi. Maybe you should throw some 42# SVO injectors in there and tune them in but, if the wideband isn't showing a lean condition I wouldn't bother.

I was thinking you were still running the PYE converter and was wondering if the lockup clutch was dragging the engine down but, you have Colonel's old 'verter so thats not a problem.

Definately get the full FTRA done. There is a difference between just the FRA and FTRA. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Now, I'm going to say this just to throw it out there...not to jinx you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> Is the tranny OK? It seems you keep having shift point problems and low trap speeds(relative <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). Could it be the trans slipping a little? <img border="0" alt="[kaboom]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bomb.gif" />

John

Oh yeah, run the smallest tire you can still hook decently on. Most of the time just a little bit of spin will show bigger MPH at the exspense of E.T(just a little).

<small>[ October 01, 2002, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: XLR8NSS ]</small>

Colonel

If there is an injector or MAF problem you should see it with Autotap. You should be monitoring O2s, timing advance, and KR on all runs. You should also keep a close eye on Ltrims at idle. See those go crazy to the positive side and you know you have an exhaust or sensor problem.

You should be running enough timing that unleaded race gas should ALWAYS be used. If you can run it on pump then you have room for more advance. My guess is your timing is less than 28 degrees. Am I right?

I agree on the smaller tire if you can hook it. Your RPMs across the line are low.

And yeah, get that tranny workin' right.

SJH

I thought you had it tuned with a wideband?
If you have ,then you will know if you have enough fuel and whether or not the maf has any faults.
If it's a nice smooth 12.5-1 for example then the injectors and maf are fine.
Your car is not slow John and is making good power. Won't hold a candle to my blown 346 powerwise though as I run 100+ in the 1/8th with only 2.73 gears and a heavier car <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

Have you done checks such as a compression and leakdown of ALL cyls?
I would do that first to make sure you have a solid shortblock.

Steve

XLR8NSS

iTrader: (4)

What's it gonna hurt to just check it, maybe a few knuckles is about it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

Maybe that LS6 valley cover is working too good.(covering up a blowby problem) Hell, I don't know.

Just giving suggestions. <img border="0" alt="[chug]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_chug.gif" />

John

DriveATransAm

change your 02s john. you are getting those codes. only like 80 bucks for a set at autozone i hear.

run a smaller tire. cross the traps higher. borrow a 26 inch, or see if you can borrow a 27 inch if you are doubtful. if you dont think you can hook a 26, get a WIDER 26! roll the fender if need be. if you wanna run a huge 28" slick, get more gear!

if the maf was messed up, the car would surge and not be so friendly.

get a real FTRA, it works <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

try and make the car lighter.

then let me drive it, ill show you how its done <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

JAS

John, talk to Jim. A STOCK LS6 MAF with the proper tables is your best bet if you are worried about size. You'll need to modify the low range from the norm. Actually, don't get rid of the SLP unit, have Jim email me if he doesn't know much about the SLP unit and how to modify it.

Plugs - Is your current heat range selection causing preignition?

O2 - 2/3 sets in the last year? Do you run leaded race fuel often or Torco, etc?

http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm
Nice little units, work nicely on the street.

You'll have to talk to Jim since he is familar with your car. I have no clue what your injector PW or MAF rates, etc etc etc are.

Can make suggestions all day long, but they are just that. Suggestions...

SJH

John, if interested I can run a compression and leakdown on your motor.

E-mail me if interested.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

The car does surge at idle slightly but I thought was from my injectors.

Car did not backfire during runs Brad. Actually on the last burnout it broke up a bit during the burnout, perhaps the car still has some sort of ignition problem.

I'm trying to locate another FTRA but it's not the cure-all for the car, it's not running 99-100mph 1/8th's at 6.8-6.9 like it should for the combo.

Colonel

"ARE, MTI, Cartek and Speed all suggested 27-28 degrees of timing..."

Well then there must be nothing to gain by going to 31 degrees, right? If you told them you were going to be running pump gas then I have no doubt that's what they said. Well, no biggy really. It's not going to make that much difference but to me every little bit counts.

"I am more worried about the MAF not working properly. Does a messed up MAF do anything particular in Autotap?

As I said before, you'll see it in your O2 readings. You can also monitor your mass airflow rate. If you disconnect your MAF you'll see it go to a steady .31 lb/min, for example.

What MAF sensor you use (short of using a stock unported MAF) doesn't really matter so long as you have it tuned properly. A standard size GMS, for example, well outflows the throttle body and the intake manifold inlet. That is why I saw zero gain by going to an 85mm unit.

JAS

Steve - Maybe a little WB after the CT...

PSJ - Are you Ltrims positive at WOT?

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I really appreciate all the help guys, if you have any questions please fire away I probably have the info in front of me...

Current combo:

ARE 02 LS6 heads, 2.08/1.60
S1 Cam
4.060 bore x 4.075 iron block
11.9:1/12:1 compression
LS6 intake
Ported stock TB
Whisper lid
!air filter for track runs and dyno pulls
ASP UD pulley
TTS long tubes (1.75)
3" dual exhaust, Borla XR1 sportsman mufflers
2.5" H pipe 15's back from headers
Yank 4300 Extreme
FLP lever IV
!FRA
Moser 9", 4.11, locker
chromoly DS
15x10's, hoosier 28x10.0x15 slicks at 14psi cold
3500 raceweight
SLP or pace 85mm MAF
Bosch 39 lb injectors

XLR8NSS

iTrader: (4)

Is that 2.5" h-pipe right off the headers?

That seems kinda small. I would go with at least a 3" version and still put, some cutouts in for the track. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

John

EDIT

Nevermind, I see what your saying about the 15" back from the headers. I thought you meant you were running 2.5" pipe off the headers. <img border="0" alt="[Banging Head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />

Definately put some cutouts in there somewhere. I bet you see a nice gain with them opened up.

John

<small>[ October 01, 2002, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: XLR8NSS ]</small>

BradWS6

iTrader: (3)

Aren't thos Valves for the heads alittle Big?

What is a S1 Cam?

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

S1= Colonel cam as we call it, Comp 244/244//112.

My 3" duals are 3" round pipe, that has been sort of pinched to an oval shape (by Jay Billingsley originally for Dave Purlee), and the ovalized pipe is 2.5' high.

Perhaps I need to race thru cutouts, is that what all the big CI guys are doing, could my muffler hurt that much?

If that's the case I'll put my 3" ORP back on, dual 3" cutouts, and a stock 98ss single cannon catback on the car to quiet it down.

JAS

PSJ - Since I'm a little familiar with the PACE Maf's <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'd like to state that it is different then the SLP maf. Is it an SLP you have for sure?

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I don't remember, I had a Pace but it might have been swapped for an SLP do they look different, what should I check?

RyanJ

2.08's are fine on a 4.060" bore. s1 is 244/244 6xx/6xx 112.

john, are you toying with us, or did it actually take you this long to figure out that somethings wrong with your combo.

DROP SOME WEIGHT! A) can you post all the weight info so i can add it up again? B) your car is pretty much drag pimped already, so why not strip it for real. airbags, steering wheel (thats 9lbs), kirkey aluminum seat, etc, etc....

c'mon, gotta do something....Terry is quicker/faster than you.

JAS

PACE have a serial number sticker and yes, there are visible differences as well as electronic, etc.

Either case, need be, I have cores.

<small>[ October 01, 2002, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: JAS ]</small>

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I'm pretty sure I have the SLP mm MAF I don't recall the MAF having any special stickers on it.

Ryan...sup. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

3400lbs (stock weight 1SA Formula hardtop)
-complete a/c
-carpeting
-backseat and back seatbelts
-front bumper support and fluid reservoir
-cruise control
-stock wheels have skinnies and slicks
-upper panhard bar
-front swaybar
-stock style exhaust
+6 pt chromoly cage
+9 inch Moser with nodular steel center and locker
+ dual exhaust with dual stainless mufflers and dumps
+Alston SFC's

Ryan, I thought that the rwhp #'s were misleading but I'm thinking they are dead on.

There are nothing wrong with the heads they are brand new...

I can do a compression test before the Thunder Shootout.