Dyno Queens in here :)

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Oct 9, 2002 | 11:57 AM

#21

Raughammer

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From: Houston Raceway Park...in TEXAS.

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

Daily driven work car (at the time)
Yank A4 and TP4400 verter.
MTI stage 2 heads/C2 Cam
3200 race weight
DA? like -800 or something...dont remember.
RWHP right at 400 and similar torque.
3.73 gears, heads, blah, blah...
At HRP. See sig for times. Web page has a lot more info.

P.S., you could "split hairs" on this topic all day, but what does it hurt to compare numbers? There is no way to compare every minute detail... but the comparo give folks a chance to see what all it out there and come to their own conclusions....

Later fellas. And keep it clean.

Oct 9, 2002 | 11:59 AM

#22

jmX

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From: Los Angeles

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by 4mulaJoe:
Sounds to me like you have some insecurities about your slow ET <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Just let people post the numbers for people to make an educated judgement from.<hr /></blockquote>First, I don't give 2 rats *** hairs about my ET. I go to the track once when I do a new mod and thats it. It isn't my thing. <img border="0" alt="[boring]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_zzz.gif" />

Second, my point was, people can't make educated judgements from the little bit of info you asked for.

Oct 9, 2002 | 01:15 PM

#23

JP98SS

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From: Alta Loma, CA

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

This should be good. BADLS1 you came over with your buddy to pick up the Hypertec right?

Oct 9, 2002 | 01:16 PM

#24

RAGEman

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From: Houston, TX

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

GREAT thread. Absolutely great. Here's my opinion, and it's better than all of yours <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> : Dyno numbers like PEAK horsepower and (sometimes) PEAK torque are great for SELLING heads, but are more evil than they are good for actually trying to compare which setup is FASTER or QUICKER. If there was an easy, simple way to calculate AREA UNDER THE HORSEPOWER CURVE, that would be the best meter around. Because it is true that track times involve factors that simply aren't present on a dyno (driver skill, traction, weight, etc.). I just know that several months ago, nearly a year ago, my car dyno'd 325 RWHP and 357 RWTQ and on the same day was running 12.7's-12.8's on street tires @ 114 MPH, meanwhile kicking the crap out of all kinds of 350+ RWHP cars, because of the aforementioned factors that are involved in drag racing that aren't an issue on a dyno. So, Terry was definitely correct in saying just because you dyno well (translated "have a high peak horsepower number") does NOT mean you have a fast car. jmX, just out of curiosity, what did you buy the heads/cam for?

Oct 9, 2002 | 01:17 PM

#25

RAGEman

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From: Houston, TX

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by badls1:
Hey Terry for those stock F-bodies running 12.5's are they on street tire? I dont think so.<hr /></blockquote>I ran 12.30 on street tires @ full weight. (N/A, stock-internal 6-speed).

Oct 9, 2002 | 01:31 PM

#26

Fenris Ulf

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From: Objects in mirror no longer matter.

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by RAGEman:
GREAT thread. Absolutely great. Here's my opinion, and it's better than all of yours <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> : Dyno numbers like PEAK horsepower and (sometimes) PEAK torque are great for SELLING heads, but are more evil than they are good for actually trying to compare which setup is FASTER or QUICKER. If there was an easy, simple way to calculate AREA UNDER THE HORSEPOWER CURVE, that would be the best meter around. <hr /></blockquote>Yeah there is, its called putting your dyno in spreadsheet form and averaging the data over a given rpm range.

Oct 9, 2002 | 01:35 PM

#27

Terry Burger

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From: Simi Valley, CA

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

John coming out to race Thursday? My new stall is pretty tight but I'm hoping I can still cut high 1.4 60's with it. If not I'll have TCI add another 400rpm. Right now it feels like stock, totally tighter than the TP4400 I took out. I've got my exhaust on and I'm going to throw my passanger seat back in for a raceweight of 3300#.

If you're not racing bring your ET streets for BADLS1 here, he's going to need them on those mid 8 1/8th mile passes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Oct 9, 2002 | 01:36 PM

#28

jmX

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From: Los Angeles

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by RAGEman:
 jmX, just out of curiosity, what did you buy the heads/cam for?<hr /></blockquote>Uh, to enjoy driving the car? To have fun when I nail it on the highway? To beat other fbody's/C5's/Z06's on the road? To have 440hp on tap as I come out of a curve at the peak of a hill out in the central texas hill country? Could any of that possibly be more important than driving an hour to a track to race 12 seconds at a time?!? NOOOO...suuuurely not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

If I just wanted to go in a straight line for 1320 feet at a time I woulda got a fox body mustang and not worried about anything else. Oh wait, I did get a fox body mustang, and it'll be the car I COMPROMISE for drag racing.

Jon
'99C5
'00SS
'88GT

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Oct 9, 2002 | 01:37 PM

#29

Colonel

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From: Troy, AL

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

"Drop my engine into a stripped out F-body with sloppy *** suspension, big non-daily driver tires on nappy looking 15" rims with 4.10 gears, drive it like you stole it (AT HRP none the less), run an 11.4. Go to the dyno, dyno 390rwhp."

I ran 11.5 and dynoed 316! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Here is what I want to know when it comes to making judgements about a combo (in no particular order)...

MPH and ET (MPH being FAR more important here)
Tranny
Converter if auto
What rear and what gearing
Shift points
DA
Raceweight
Traction

Give me all of that information accurately and it tells me ALOT more about the combo than any dyno could.

Dynos are for tuning, folks. <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

Oct 9, 2002 | 01:39 PM

#30

RAGEman

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From: Houston, TX

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Fenris Ulf:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by RAGEman:
GREAT thread. Absolutely great. Here's my opinion, and it's better than all of yours <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> : Dyno numbers like PEAK horsepower and (sometimes) PEAK torque are great for SELLING heads, but are more evil than they are good for actually trying to compare which setup is FASTER or QUICKER. If there was an easy, simple way to calculate AREA UNDER THE HORSEPOWER CURVE, that would be the best meter around. <hr /></blockquote>Yeah there is, its called putting your dyno in spreadsheet form and averaging the data over a given rpm range.<hr /></blockquote>Don't think for one minute that I didn't already know you could do that. I said "an easy, simple way," and I don't consider that easy. Not easy enough for everyone to start doing it, at least. The point is that area under the horsepower curve is a much more revealing measurement than just peak numbers.

Oct 9, 2002 | 01:48 PM

#31

RAGEman

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From: Houston, TX

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jmX:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by RAGEman:
 jmX, just out of curiosity, what did you buy the heads/cam for?<hr /></blockquote>Uh, to enjoy driving the car? To have fun when I nail it on the highway? To beat other fbody's/C5's/Z06's on the road? To have 440hp on tap as I come out of a curve at the peak of a hill out in the central texas hill country? Could any of that possibly be more important than driving an hour to a track to race 12 seconds at a time?!? NOOOO...suuuurely not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

If I just wanted to go in a straight line for 1320 feet at a time I woulda got a fox body mustang and not worried about anything else. Oh wait, I did get a fox body mustang, and it'll be the car I COMPROMISE for drag racing.

Jon
'99C5
'00SS
'88GT<hr /></blockquote>It is unfortunate that you ASSumed that I was already critical of your viewpoint. When I said just out of curiosity, that's what I meant. I was just wondering. I wouldn't want to go down the 1320 either if I was scared to show what my car could do and hide behind meaningless numbers. (Hey, if you can ASSume you know me and my thoughts, I can too).

Oct 9, 2002 | 03:14 PM

#32

jmX

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From: Los Angeles

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by RAGEman:
I wouldn't want to go down the 1320 either if I was scared to show what my car could do and hide behind meaningless numbers. (Hey, if you can ASSume you know me and my thoughts, I can too).<hr /></blockquote>Huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Oct 9, 2002 | 03:26 PM

#33

RAGEman

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From: Houston, TX

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

Oct 9, 2002 | 03:28 PM

#34

Pro Stock John

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Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

I am following this thread with great interest but see nothing in here that's very helpful.

I know folks like Judson from SAM love HP over TQ, but surely there has to be some sort of formula that makes sense.

I dynoed 450rwhp/531rwtq apparently with too lean a AF for ARE, but have gone 11.02@122.6mph at 3500 raceweight and 1700da. So are we saying that 450rwhp/400rwtq is good for low 11's at 118 at 3500 raceweight or what conclusions can we draw from various examples?

Frankly some of the 440rwhp M6 cars do not run the trap speeds I would expect since I have seen 390rwhp cars run 116mph so I would expect 440rwhp cars to run 120-123mph all day long.

Oct 9, 2002 | 03:34 PM

#35

RAGEman

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From: Houston, TX

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

Dude, horsepower is a function of torque and RPM. A higher peak torque number also necessarily indicates a higher horsepower reading at the peak torque RPM. Area under the horsepower (and/or torque, I guess) curve(s) is where it's at! FWIW, I've seen at least 2 350-360 RWHP 6-speeds running upwards of 119-120 MPH trap speeds. Just goes to show you how many unique factors are involved in drag racing (<cough> WEIGHT <cough>).

Oct 9, 2002 | 03:37 PM

#36

jmX

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Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by RAGEman:
Just making ignorant ASSumptions.<hr /></blockquote>I made ignorant assumptions because you asked a stupid question. Why do I eat? Because I'm hungry. Why do I sleep? Because I'm tired. Why do I buy heads/cam? Because I want to go faster. Stupid questions get stupid answers.

Oct 9, 2002 | 03:46 PM

#37

RAGEman

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From: Houston, TX

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jmX:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by RAGEman:
Just making ignorant ASSumptions.<hr /></blockquote>I made ignorant assumptions because you asked a stupid question. Why do I eat? Because I'm hungry. Why do I sleep? Because I'm tired. Why do I buy heads/cam? Because I want to go faster. Stupid questions get stupid answers.<hr /></blockquote>It wasn't a stupid question. I didn't think the ONLY answer could have been "to run better ¼-mile times." I was just curious what your motives were. I knew going fast was a biproduct of more horsepower. But, as you so professionally pointed out, racing at the track is not the only way to show off your new-found speed/power. There are many other ways, some of them you mentioned (having fun on the highway, street racing, etc.). Obviously people do things for different reasons. Thus, instead of ASSuming, as you did, that I knew your motives, I asked. I'm not sure making ignorant ASSumptions is any better than asking questions (even ones that, in your esteemed opinion, happen to be stupid). If you'd like to have a bitterness battle, I can do that. It will be fun for me, I assure you.

Oct 9, 2002 | 03:48 PM

#38

EuG

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From: Vette

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

This is hilarious! <img src="http://www.agrnet.com:8888/Pictures/Images/Smilies/icon_smile_lachuh.gif" alt=" - " /> <img src="http://www.agrnet.com:8888/Pictures/Images/Smilies/icon_smile_lachuh.gif" alt=" - " /> <img src="http://www.agrnet.com:8888/Pictures/Images/Smilies/icon_smile_lachuh.gif" alt=" - " />

Oct 9, 2002 | 03:56 PM

#39

jmX

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From: Los Angeles

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by RAGEman:
It will be fun for me, I assure you.<hr /></blockquote>It'd be even more fun for me, I promise. Anyways, we've wasted enough server space having fun. Time to let the thread go on. <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

Oct 9, 2002 | 03:59 PM

#40

RAGEman

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From: Houston, TX

Re: Dyno Queens in here :)

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