Dyno Sheet Up, Experts Inside, Please!!!
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Dyno Sheet Up, Experts Inside, Please!!! I need help with my car and I have the dyno graph now so I would like to throw it up and get some feedback on my car. I have it in my email.
One of my biggest problems is where I shift and where I am making power. My peak Tque is at 4600 or so, and when I shift my car comes back down to 5000 or so and then shifts again at 6900. I am never in the PEAK Trq range except on launch. I need some advice on what I can move around or play with to make use of the power I already have. Details on the car are in the sig. Thanks Guys. Bear
<small>[ October 09, 2002, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Bear ]</small>
One of my biggest problems is where I shift and where I am making power. My peak Tque is at 4600 or so, and when I shift my car comes back down to 5000 or so and then shifts again at 6900. I am never in the PEAK Trq range except on launch. I need some advice on what I can move around or play with to make use of the power I already have. Details on the car are in the sig. Thanks Guys. Bear
<small>[ October 09, 2002, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Bear ]</small>
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Re: Dyno Sheet Up, Experts Inside, Please!!! It doesnt matter if you are ever in your torque peak. You need to stay in the highest horsepower area of your curve the whole time. Forget about where the torque peak is.
<img src="http://home.austin.rr.com/tyr/bear.jpg" alt=" - " />
<small>[ October 09, 2002, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: jmX ]</small>
<img src="http://home.austin.rr.com/tyr/bear.jpg" alt=" - " />
<small>[ October 09, 2002, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: jmX ]</small>
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Re: Dyno Sheet Up, Experts Inside, Please!!! The graph is posted and I am wondering what ya'll think is the problem with my setup. I am shifting at 699 and RL in 7200. I need to make BETTER use of what I already have. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks Guys! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" />
<small>[ October 09, 2002, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: Bear ]</small>
<small>[ October 09, 2002, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: Bear ]</small>
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Re: Dyno Sheet Up, Experts Inside, Please!!! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bear:
<strong>The graph is posted and I am wondering what ya'll think is the problem with my setup. I am shifting at 6900 and RL in 7200. I need to make BETTER use of what I already have. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks Guys! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
<strong>The graph is posted and I am wondering what ya'll think is the problem with my setup. I am shifting at 6900 and RL in 7200. I need to make BETTER use of what I already have. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks Guys! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Re: Dyno Sheet Up, Experts Inside, Please!!! Bear,It looks like spikes for peaks.
Looking at the sheet I would say u are making 395RWHP at 6300 and 392 RWTQ at 4900.
These are pretty good numbers.
I would shift the car at 6600 MAX and run at least a 4500 stall w/your setup.
Your VIG 3600 is too small for max ET
Are unlocked numbers look to be very close..
405RWHP@6400 to your 395RWHP@6300
Good luck...
JS
<small>[ October 09, 2002, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>
Looking at the sheet I would say u are making 395RWHP at 6300 and 392 RWTQ at 4900.
These are pretty good numbers.
I would shift the car at 6600 MAX and run at least a 4500 stall w/your setup.
Your VIG 3600 is too small for max ET
Are unlocked numbers look to be very close..
405RWHP@6400 to your 395RWHP@6300
Good luck...
JS
<small>[ October 09, 2002, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>
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Re: Dyno Sheet Up, Experts Inside, Please!!! Joel that is the kind of stuff I'm looking for. Keep in mind the graph is thru an UNLOCKED 3600, We could not lock the verter down on the dyno. I agree about the stall. Now with all the "Exposed" Verters I am wiery on which way to go. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Re: Dyno Sheet Up, Experts Inside, Please!!! Well there is alot of BS going on w/verters...
I wont knock anybodies verters.
FWIW Cartek loves PI's.
I think they're okay but PI's shift extension is not too good.
I dropped from 6700 to 5100 which is bad for max ET.
U need a TP4500 like mine but its loose.
I know u like driving your car,This verter is HARDCORE so be careful when deciding..
I think RAGTOPS verter would suit u pretty well.
I had one of the 1st one's made by YANK in my old JPR setup.
It a TP4200 and should work almost a good as a TP4500.
Good luck...
JS
<small>[ October 09, 2002, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>
I wont knock anybodies verters.
FWIW Cartek loves PI's.
I think they're okay but PI's shift extension is not too good.
I dropped from 6700 to 5100 which is bad for max ET.
U need a TP4500 like mine but its loose.
I know u like driving your car,This verter is HARDCORE so be careful when deciding..
I think RAGTOPS verter would suit u pretty well.
I had one of the 1st one's made by YANK in my old JPR setup.
It a TP4200 and should work almost a good as a TP4500.
Good luck...
JS
<small>[ October 09, 2002, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>
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Re: Dyno Sheet Up, Experts Inside, Please!!! That was the latest dyno sheet after the 12 bolt was installed and yes it is quite spikey, but that was actually the cleanest one that we got for that session.
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Re: Dyno Sheet Up, Experts Inside, Please!!! Bear:
I hate to say this, but the rpms are unreliable using a unlocked dyno graph. Dynojets use an average rpm/mph factor to estimate engine rpm and the converter slip messes that up. You KNOW the converter flashed to about 5000 when you mashed it, yet your graph shows results at 4200. W/O a locked graph you simply do not have an accurate measure of the ENGINE's power curve.
As far as never dropping down around peak torque, that again is the converter. It is actually a good thing; you want the torque multiplication from the converter's shift extension. It also keeps the car closer to peak HP. If your rpms are dropping to 5000 rpm, you have a converter problem. You should be holding several hundred rpms higher. By way of example, when I had the TR cam, JPR S1 heads, and a blown cylinder, I was still holding about 5200 rpms with my YTP 4000. With my motor healthy and the YTP 4200 I hold about 5500 and with the new cam I'm around 5700. Your set-up should make as much or more power than me.
My guess is that 6900 shift points are too high for your combo. Joe normally ports for a strong midrange and with the TR224 112 cam I'll bet that an accurate dyno would show a peak of about 6100 rpm and that by 6600 your HP starts really dropping.
<small>[ October 09, 2002, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: Ragtop 99 ]</small>
I hate to say this, but the rpms are unreliable using a unlocked dyno graph. Dynojets use an average rpm/mph factor to estimate engine rpm and the converter slip messes that up. You KNOW the converter flashed to about 5000 when you mashed it, yet your graph shows results at 4200. W/O a locked graph you simply do not have an accurate measure of the ENGINE's power curve.
As far as never dropping down around peak torque, that again is the converter. It is actually a good thing; you want the torque multiplication from the converter's shift extension. It also keeps the car closer to peak HP. If your rpms are dropping to 5000 rpm, you have a converter problem. You should be holding several hundred rpms higher. By way of example, when I had the TR cam, JPR S1 heads, and a blown cylinder, I was still holding about 5200 rpms with my YTP 4000. With my motor healthy and the YTP 4200 I hold about 5500 and with the new cam I'm around 5700. Your set-up should make as much or more power than me.
My guess is that 6900 shift points are too high for your combo. Joe normally ports for a strong midrange and with the TR224 112 cam I'll bet that an accurate dyno would show a peak of about 6100 rpm and that by 6600 your HP starts really dropping.
<small>[ October 09, 2002, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: Ragtop 99 ]</small>
Re: Dyno Sheet Up, Experts Inside, Please!!! Bear,I think Joel/Rag is correct.
U really cant get accurate peaks off an unlocked sheet.
I agree w/him to a point.U are peaking somewhere around 6100 to 6300 but w/o locking the verter its hard to say for sure.
Rag,I was only giving BEAR an opinion of what I seen here,U and I both know its hard to really know until he locks the verter down and gets an accurate pull.
One thing's for sure here,BEAR IS SHIFTING TOO HIGH.And your verter is dropping to low on shifts according to your autotap info.THATS FACT!!!
U have the power BEAR,U just need to figure out the correct shift points/flash stall with NO MORE than 1200rpm between shift drops and the car will lay a good ET.
Get is back to the dyno ASAP and LOCK the verter...
U could always do what I did by tapping into the PCM and using a momentary switch in the car to lock the verter in 3rd.Then go to JD's with Joe for another quick pull or 2.
This way Joe could set your shifts properly (edit) and then figure out what verter will be the best for your setup.
I still say a shift point of 6500/6600 is gonna be close to perfect and a TP4200/4500 should be about right too...
Good luck...
JS
<small>[ October 09, 2002, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>
U really cant get accurate peaks off an unlocked sheet.
I agree w/him to a point.U are peaking somewhere around 6100 to 6300 but w/o locking the verter its hard to say for sure.
Rag,I was only giving BEAR an opinion of what I seen here,U and I both know its hard to really know until he locks the verter down and gets an accurate pull.
One thing's for sure here,BEAR IS SHIFTING TOO HIGH.And your verter is dropping to low on shifts according to your autotap info.THATS FACT!!!
U have the power BEAR,U just need to figure out the correct shift points/flash stall with NO MORE than 1200rpm between shift drops and the car will lay a good ET.
Get is back to the dyno ASAP and LOCK the verter...
U could always do what I did by tapping into the PCM and using a momentary switch in the car to lock the verter in 3rd.Then go to JD's with Joe for another quick pull or 2.
This way Joe could set your shifts properly (edit) and then figure out what verter will be the best for your setup.
I still say a shift point of 6500/6600 is gonna be close to perfect and a TP4200/4500 should be about right too...
Good luck...
JS
<small>[ October 09, 2002, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>
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Re: Dyno Sheet Up, Experts Inside, Please!!! I agree, 6900 is way too high for a shift point, further more, I wouldn't trust those 918 springs with too much sustained RPM IMO. I tried to get into the PCM but Ed has it locked down tight with a new algo code so adjusting the shift points must be done by Ed. I feel I know what the problem is I am just waiting for Bear to drop it off.
Joe
Joe
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Re: Dyno Sheet Up, Experts Inside, Please!!! Sounds like some good stuff. I have one issue, I need to get a PCM from valve god, then get it flashed stock at the dealership, then go to Joe's and JD's. Thats more time and resources then I have right now. The vertor may have to stay until I get the other stuff figured out. Joe when we get the PCM thing figured out I will be in touch ASAP.! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Thanks Rag, and Joe(l). Now off to the classifieds. <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />
Re: Dyno Sheet Up, Experts Inside, Please!!! Bear,Email me if you need help getting a stock flash on the new comp.
The advice from JPR,JS,Rag,etc is right on the money.With my TP4400 behind the bolt on motor shifting at 6500- it would drop to 5300.With the ThunderRace Edit tune shifting 6500+ with heads and TR224/112 it drops to high 5500's.I can use my HPP to change shift points if I want too.You are shifting high out of the power band and then dropping low out the power band.
My opinion only,MANY.10's are going to drop when you get that dialed in.
<small>[ October 10, 2002, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: jfm ]</small>
The advice from JPR,JS,Rag,etc is right on the money.With my TP4400 behind the bolt on motor shifting at 6500- it would drop to 5300.With the ThunderRace Edit tune shifting 6500+ with heads and TR224/112 it drops to high 5500's.I can use my HPP to change shift points if I want too.You are shifting high out of the power band and then dropping low out the power band.
My opinion only,MANY.10's are going to drop when you get that dialed in.
<small>[ October 10, 2002, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: jfm ]</small>