Chicago Z06

there is a lot of interesting information in these posts. but i feel there is something being missed by most of you. the people who are out there devoting their life to this business who work 60 hours a week porting heads, running a shop, selling parts, wrenching or whatever are TRYING to make a decent living doing something they enjoy, care about, and in most cases are good at. when you buy a set of GTP heads you are not just paying for a port job your paying for Craigs experience and knowledge.. Craig has been doing heads longer than most of you have had your licence. I do not own a shop any longer because i went back to making a living to afford the things i enjoy.. the shop owners out here HAVE to deal with the whinny cheap people who would rather spend a buck to save one. they deal with them EVERY DAY!! take a look at yourselves.. you work to make a living.. what is wrong with shop owners doing the same thing? no one out here sponsors or otherwise gouges you they charge a fair honset price because they have to pay for overhead, equipment, employees.. salary ,medical all the things you expect from your employers.. Do you think knowedge comes for free? Craig, Jason or any of the other owners out here had to pay their dues. .do you think they should give that away just because you can't afford it or your a nice person? or you feel it is too expensive? hell when was the last time you negotiated shop rate with a dealer or deep discounts??.. not too often.. why is it most of you have to follow the cheapest price out there and that must be the best way? if you can't afford it find another hobby you can afford.. you don't want to spend 3 grand on Craigs or anyone elses heads DON'T but quit trying to justify your decision as it applys to everyone on this list. I respect the owners out here trying to make a living and i do support them when i can without the pain of soemone whining about can't you do any better? i can't afford that.. come on we are friends aren't we? haven't i given you enough business to justify more of a discount?... geez enough already... buy a fox body mustang if you want cheap parts..
this whole post makes me sick!!! <img border="0" alt="[barf]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" />
Wes

BADZ

iTrader: (5)

The way you have your car set up play's a big factor I understand that completely but with my post above, that was with full race weight on and average of 3200+ and like I said before if you want to buy a production head that's half the price "fine" its your money but if you want to buy a set of heads that has the time and expirience into every set then buy GTP...I would ask myself alot of questions if I were buying a set of heads and wonder why these were so cheap as the rest were 1000.00 more.. "Its call expirience boy's" and I agree 100% with the above post also...This hobby cost and if you think your to the limit of cost then go find yourself another way to have fun and quit <img border="0" alt="[whiner]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by verbs:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by BADZ:
<strong>Is TEA in the 10's yet with H/C packs?

Just wondering? ET's makes up alot IMO... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now ask yourself how much longer GTP has been in the LS1 market compared to TEA (years?) and then ask yourself how many LS1 GTP heads are out there for every set of LS1 TEA's.

Lastly ask yourself this. How many other factors go into ET aside from heads? Weight, gearing, driver, track conditions, weather, elevation, suspension, etc....

I mean ****, Rageman could throw on a not so great stage 1 head/cam package and be running 10's. Does that mean his heads are quality? Not necessarily.

I just don't see how you rate the quality of heads by the ET the cars run. Too many variables IMO.

The people that have the cash to lay out $3000+ for GTP/MTI heads most likely have more money to spend on their cars than the average person....which tells me they may have more $$$ to spend on other mods to help them get closer to 10's....at least more so compared to the average individual.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

<small>[ October 25, 2002, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: BADZ ]</small>

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chicago Z06:
<strong>there is a lot of interesting information in these posts. but i feel there is something being missed by most of you. the people who are out there devoting their life to this business who work 60 hours a week porting heads, running a shop, selling parts, wrenching or whatever are TRYING to make a decent living doing something they enjoy, care about, and in most cases are good at. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think that's wonderful, they made the choice to do that.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
when you buy a set of GTP heads you are not just paying for a port job your paying for Craigs experience and knowledge</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Which appears to get you about 5-10rwhp or so over TEA at best. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> I know that's worth at least an extra $1,000 to some people and more power to them if it is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Craig has been doing heads longer than most of you have had your licence. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And the point is?

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
I do not own a shop any longer because i went back to making a living to afford the things i enjoy.. the shop owners out here HAVE to deal with the whinny cheap people who would rather spend a buck to save one. they deal with them EVERY DAY!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">True of anyone that has to deal with the public. I fail to see how that makes the shop owner any more special anyone else dealing with the public.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
take a look at yourselves.. you work to make a living.. what is wrong with shop owners doing the same thing? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nothing at all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
no one out here sponsors or otherwise gouges you they charge a fair honset price because they have to pay for overhead, equipment, employees.. salary ,medical all the things you expect from your employers</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's right it's the customers choice to buy or not to buy a product from this or that sponsor. If we want to consider price as part of the purchase we most certainly can. I would image almost everyone on this sight considered price at some point in their automotive purchase or else we'd all be driving Bently's, RR's, Mercede's, Porsche's, and so on.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Do you think knowedge comes for free? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Of course not, but the market place only pays what is actually worth. Some think $3,000 or is a fair price more power to them if they want GTP heads. For the rest $1800 for set of TEA's is a fair price, more power to them.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Craig, Jason or any of the other owners out here had to pay their dues. .do you think they should give that away just because you can't afford it or your a nice person? or you feel it is too expensive? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Of course not, it's their product they can do whatever they wish with it. Free market.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
hell when was the last time you negotiated shop rate with a dealer or deep discounts??.. not too often.. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well actually everytime When I buy parts at a GM dealer I get a decent discount or I go somewhere else. Power of the free market. If you want to pay full retail for your stuff that's fine but there's nothing wrong with bargin shopping either.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
why is it most of you have to follow the cheapest price out there and that must be the best way? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't think anyone is saying the cheapest way is the best way. However, cheaper may be a fully viable way for bascially the same result. By all means if money is no issue then spend freely on whatever you please.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
if you can't afford it find another hobby you can afford.. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Your absolutely right, if everyone that had to stretch a dollar would just Get The Fu@k out of the performance car hobby, it would be so much better for those with the cash. In fact if all the middle class and working class folks didn't buy another part ever, it wouldn't even faze the performance parts industry or tuners in the least. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
you don't want to spend 3 grand on Craigs or anyone elses heads DON'T but quit trying to justify your decision as it applys to everyone on this list. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Right on the mark. However, most of the "cheap bastards" already knew that "their" decisions applied to "them" not necessary anyone else.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
I respect the owners out here trying to make a living and i do support them when i can without the pain of soemone whining about can't you do any better? i can't afford that.. come on we are friends aren't we? haven't i given you enough business to justify more of a discount?... geez enough already... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Asking someone to cut their price because "we are friends" sucks. I agree with you on that. Expecting freebies because "we go way back" almost is like entitlement and is wrong.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
buy a fox body mustang if you want cheap parts..
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">but fox body is so fugly!

<small>[ October 26, 2002, 01:05 AM: Message edited by: 99 Black Bird T/A ]</small>

mattf2

you can take the $1000, and spend it on other go fast goodies. Usually $1000 gets you more than 10 HP(I didn't say always).

Brian Tooley Racing

iTrader: (13)

I consider Craig Gallant a friend of mine, we've talked on the phone, we've hung out at PRI, etc. I have great respect for GTP as Craigs product is one of the few, if not the only one, that has flowed what it is supposed to flow (LT1)on our bench. We at TEA consider ourselves very fortunate to be in the position in the cylinder head industry that we are in today. To give you some background on myself, I started porting heads in 1986, (before Craig got out of highschool) three years after buying my first brand spankin new Z-28, you can guess what the heads I was porting were for.
When a business like ours does all brands of heads I think it sometimes turns off the "hard core" guys and I can understand that. When I got into this business the man I had the most respect for was Kenny Duttweiler, because he could make anything fast, Buick, Chevy, Ford, etc, it didn't matter what it was. I have been doing engine development stuff (heads mostly) fulltime since 1992. We aquired the CNC machine in spring 2001, we could not get it to do what we wanted it to do and fought it a good bit. Now that we finally have the CNC program the way we want it, it is pretty easy to quickly reproduce our product. We have the capability to produce 2 sets of Stage II LS1 CNC ported heads per shift/ per day at TEA with high quality. It is called technology, and we are at the forefront. Craig can go buy a CNC machine and maybe his prices would go down, and maybe not. I obviously ported heads by hand for years, and you can only turn out a few sets of heads a week, with high quality. All of us that have to make a living in this business know how hard it is and I'm not here to make it hard on anyone, I'm just trying to sell a good product at a fair price, maybe too fair, but I don't think so.
So to finish Terry Burgers quote earlier " CNC heads suck a lot of air and are very consistent" Thank you Terry

BTW nice post Wade

LS1derfull

I believe in analyzing every part for power and perf. increase potential, this includes cost per gain.There is nothing satisfying about buying up all the same components as every one else with out questioning its reason for replacement and expected gains. I have gone from 13.4 at 106.5mph to 12.2 at 115.4mph with a total cost of around $1500.Refine what matters and whenever possible do the work yourself. How is $1200+ dollars for 1 tenth and 1mph on headers and off road y satisfying? Give me a break! Thats about the same gain as near empty gas tank and sway bars removed! Get what im saying??? Use your head not your wallet when making purchases and changes! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hardtop

iTrader: (3)

Both are great heads. I like my TEA's. 3520 race weight, times in sig. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Bruce

GrannySShifting

iTrader: (10)

So brian, can you do me a badass set of LT1s <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

LS1derfull

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by LS1derfull:
<strong>I believe in analyzing every part for power and perf. increase potential, this includes cost per gain.There is nothing satisfying about buying up all the same components as every one else with out questioning its reason for replacement and expected gains. I have gone from 13.4 at 106.5mph to 12.0 at 114.8mph with a total cost of around $1500.Refine what matters and whenever possible do the work yourself. How is $1200+ dollars for 1 tenth and 1mph on headers and off road y satisfying? Give me a break! Thats about the same gain as near empty gas tank and sway bars removed! Get what im saying??? Use your head not your wallet when making purchases and changes! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">TTT

<small>[ October 27, 2002, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: LS1derfull ]</small>

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by GrannySShifting:
<strong>So brian, can you do me a badass set of LT1s <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah Brian has a very good LT1 port.
"GM LT1

We can do great things with your GM LT1 heads. Our LT1 porting is second to none. Please give us a call for more details. Check our Services page for milling, O-ringing, and other services.

CNC Ported GM LT1: $1499.00, exchange
11 Sec Head & Cam Packages: $1749.00"

http://www.totalengineairflow.com/pr...head/index.htm

I spent some time on the phone with Brian the other day. He's a smart guy and knows his stuff, having record breaking cars running your stuff speaks alot.

It's funny but the big majority of heads out there flow 290-300cfm why pay $1000 more for the same product?

I think Brians comments about Craig say alot about him and his bussiness.

Bret

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

If I had an LT1 I would try TEA's LT1 heads and cam package. A TEA LT1 car did very well at the F-body shoot out last year.

NFRA Customers

LT1 Power Adder

Jason Warren

Winner 2001 NFRA EFI Challenge, LT1 Power Adder, Sep 15, 2001 - 10.12 @ 137.62

See bottom of page

http://www.totalengineairflow.com/rides/index.htm
Runner-Up 2001 NFRA EFI Challenge, King Street, Sep 15, 2001 - 10.10 @ 137.20

Sears

Heads are the last thing you want to skimp on.

GTP heads vs stock heads
http://www.fryrice.com/images/GTPvsStock.jpg

GTP heads vs local ported heads
http://www.fryrice.com/images/GTPvslocal.jpg

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Justin

Brian-GTP

Hey Guys, normally we don't post much on the message boards since we're busy making cylinder heads but just so ya know Craig graduated high school all the way back in '83 and started porting in '82 working at Texas Greyrock Racing and went to the runoffs in '83 but thats a whole other story. We appreciate all of the business you guys give us. Craig's background is comp eliminator, pro stock with alot of nascar legal circle track experience as well as the LS1.. The LS1 heads are 50% of our business right now. Our shop has 8 employees that do nothing but cylinder head development, we're not the most expensive but we're definately not the cheapest either. We spend alot of time developing our product, the dealers that use us across the country readily prove our work. Again thanks for all the interest, we love the competition. It only makes us strive to make a better product for you guys.

RAGEman

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by verbs:
<strong>I mean ****, Rageman could throw on a not so great stage 1 head/cam package and be running 10's. Does that mean his heads are quality? Not necessarily.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So very true...wait, what are you trying to say?!?!?! <img border="0" alt="[fight]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_punch.gif" />

wizkid

iTrader: (3)

Originally posted by someone is this thread
when you buy a set of GTP heads you are not just paying for a port job your paying for Craigs experience and knowledge Which appears to get you about 5-10rwhp or so over TEA at best. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> I know that's worth at least an extra $1,000 to some people and more power to them if it is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

I haven't read this thread all the way through but I can say this. Check out my website, www.installuniversity.com, realize that most shops will increase the compression ratio to 11.5 or so to achieve the extra 5 - 10 hp. Not even taking into account DIFFERENT dyno's and lots of other things. My stage 1 heads have around 10.5:1 (I can't remember off the top of my head) and made better power (see website) than MMS stage 2 on the same dyno.

They both make a great head, TEA's is just less expensive and for some reason in the GM world this is odd.

ERic
www.installuniversity.com

<small>[ October 28, 2002, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: wizkid ]</small>

Country Boy

iTrader: (24)

Why does GTP charge so much? Because they can. They could raise the price to $4000 and people will still buy them. Its supply and demand! You have a product and people are willing to pay the price for it. I found out what it take to machine heads and for port work and let me say, GTP is making alot of profit $$$$$.

For example. Someone here gets 470 HP with their heads, but their prices went to say $3800 for a stage 2 LS1 head. People will still buy it wanting the same results.

verbs

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RAGEman:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by verbs:
<strong>I mean ****, Rageman could throw on a not so great stage 1 head/cam package and be running 10's. Does that mean his heads are quality? Not necessarily.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So very true...wait, what are you trying to say?!?!?! <img border="0" alt="[fight]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_punch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1. Your car kicks *** <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
2. Criteria for "what are good heads" shouldn't be how many 10 second cars are using those heads. Too many factors in a 10 second car...i.e. raceweight (which is why I used you as an example)

Tin Indian

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Country Boy:
<strong>Why does GTP charge so much? Because they can. They could raise the price to $4000 and people will still buy them. Its supply and demand! You have a product and people are willing to pay the price for it. I found out what it take to machine heads and for port work and let me say, GTP is making alot of profit $$$$$.

For example. Someone here gets 470 HP with their heads, but their prices went to say $3800 for a stage 2 LS1 head. People will still buy it wanting the same results.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You got that right!

AlonzoVersion 1.0

The name of the game is to go fast for cheap and not break anything.Now myself I am not a cheap bastard but at the same time I wont pass up on a good deal either.If 5-10hp is all that I will get for an extra $1000 bucks then I will skip that horsepower and look elsewhere for it.I am not rich or anything so I have no choice on some of the things that I do.Its all about the person.Now I will agree I hate cheap ******* that are looking for hand me outs.This isnt the sport for them.However there is nothing wrong with bargain shopping especially if you have to because of your budget.I look at it this way if you cant afford it fine get the next best thing.Nothing is free in life people and as long as the dyno numbers go up then the prices will go up at the same rate. <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

<small>[ October 29, 2002, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: Alonzo ]</small>

RAGEman

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by verbs:
<strong>
1. Your car kicks *** <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
2. Criteria for "what are good heads" shouldn't be how many 10 second cars are using those heads. Too many factors in a 10 second car...i.e. raceweight (which is why I used you as an example)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I wholeheartedly agree (with #2, at least). <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />