99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by cantdrv65:
<strong>85,000 miles on my stock '99 pump, never waivered. I installed a cam last week and saw no reason to replace it or the timing chain. Time will tell, but I'm not worried. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seems like most of the oil pumps that fail do so on low mileage cars. Or is that inaccurate?

Argon Z

the reason they fail usuall is due to a faulty pressure relief valve which sticks

when get a katech oil pump they polish this out

Dave@Ramchargers

I know a few guys who had problems with their pump who you could have no even included in your estimate. this board does not show any true results of failures. Id say its WAY over the 250 mark. Id say atleast 1000. I know dealers who have done more than 10 a peice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Jake99SS

I've had 2 stock oil pumps go bad. The original actually failed at about 33K miles. The second stock one was in the car about a year before I started seeing the same symptoms as the original. Pressure would be fine then plummet by 20psi while sitting at a light. I didn't wait for that one to fail. Got the ARE pump installed right away. That was almost a year ago and I haven't had any issues since.

Fulton 1

iTrader: (9)

Thanks, Jay. That makes sense. I actually like this dealer and their service dept has always done me right. I'm going to consider this one an anomoly. The good news is that when I put in the new oil pump it was logical to do the cam too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

98TAauto

iTrader: (2)

I have a KATECH pump and chain setting in a box. I didnt install it along with the cam because I was planning on doing it before spring.

Anyway Ive seen a few reported Katech pumps blowing so I was worried what if mine does also right after I go through the trouble of installing it. I have 42k on my stock pump/chain and the pressure is the same as its always been. Even with the cam pressure is fine.

I agree with some of the others, if it aint broke done fix it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Dave, that comment,"I know dealers who have done more than 10 a peice." is pretty scary!

Thanks for the comments, I'm learning more as we go.

If you take a stock oil pump apart can you tell if the pressure relief valve potentially has a problem? Is it at all obvious?

horist

Well, I've gotta ARE Oil pump and a RollMaster double timing chain w/heat treated gears sitting in my bedroom now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

I figure I'm spending several thousand already, what's another few hundred if it means potentially less problems in the future?

I've gone over 40,000 miles on my car and pressure is fine... but I don't know want to wake up one morning and have 0 pressure...

Mike

JAS

And how many of you that are seeing less then 40psi hot oil pressure at idle have race bearings or non-GM (stock) bearings in their motors?

Viper

iTrader: (6)

Mine died at 35,600 miles. No warning, just started up one day and no oil pressure. It can happen. I drive a 99' ( currently being rebuilt by JPR due to the oil pump failure which GM refused to do anything about ).

Fulton 1

iTrader: (9)

FWIW, I would sum it up this way: there are no guarantees with the aftermarket parts as there are no guarantees with the stock parts (as we've seen). For example, even the best 4340 parts and the best titanium parts can break and can be defective. However, if the Katechs and ARE's of the world know there is potential for a problem with the LS1/LS6 oil pumps and they have developed a way of minimizing the problem or at least a way of reducing the failures, then it seems to me you're better off going that route. At least the odds should be on your side...

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Fulton 1:
<strong>FWIW, I would sum it up this way: there are no guarantees with the aftermarket parts as there are no guarantees with the stock parts (as we've seen). For example, even the best 4340 parts and the best titanium parts can break and can be defective. However, if the Katechs and ARE's of the world know there is potential for a problem with the LS1/LS6 oil pumps and they have developed a way of minimizing the problem or at least a way of reducing the failures, then it seems to me you're better off going that route. At least the odds should be on your side...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bold is mine.

That's what Katech and Jesse at SRP said. I dropped the car off yesterday at SRP for heads & cam instal.

On a different note, the Rollmaster timing set Horist mentioned, turns out to be something I really needed. When Jesse set up my heads and cam in his LS1 test block and degreed the cam in, the P to V clearance was very tight. He said the Rollmaster will be a very big plus on adjust the cam timing and I would have made things way more difficult without the Rollmaster adjustable timing set! Good thing I listened to my friends here on LS1tech about which timing set to get! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

The P to V clearance was .050 on the intake side with the desired clearance being .060 or more

With a 224 XE-R cam on 113 LSA with 4 degrees advance, the cam actually had ~ 4.75 degrees advance on the test block when installed dot to dot. My set up needs to loose about 1 degree of advance to gain a little more P to V clearance. If the heads and cam set up the same way in my car (it could vary a little) the cam timing will most likely need to be retarded 1-2 degrees for safe P to V clearance.

Things turned out to be tight enough for my set up, that cam really needed to be degreed in with the P to V clearance very carefully checked and set up to avoid future problems. Once again, <img border="0" alt="[hail]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" /> SRP <img border="0" alt="[hail]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" /> saved my car from another potentially serious problem. If a friend and I had done in the install as I'd first planed the cam would have been slapped in dot to dot with potential diasterous results. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

I told Jesse, it was my understanding the heads were only milled .005 for clean up but based on the way things measured out on the test block it seems possible the heads were actually decked .015
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I'm so glad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> I listened <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> to Jesse about not getting a big reverse split like a 230/224 XE-R or a 227/224 XE-R or we could have had a real P to V clearance problem with my set up!

LS1swap

I can get an ls6 pump delivered to my door for $62. What advantage would the Katechs and ARE's give me at double the price. I don't plan on running NOS .....

I get my block back Monday from the speed shop so I will be assembling it next week. I was just going to order the LS6 pump along with the hot cam package.

TaTommyWS6

I replaced my oil pump yesterday with a 2001 version. I had no oil pressure on startup twice, and the Pontiac dealer isn't worth $h!t when this happens.... Hopefully it will be OK now. When I first started the car, the pressure came right up, and it seems to be working great!

LS1derfull

Question, on failed oil pump victims was it just a matter of bypass relief valve sticking in open position? I just took apart a 98 oil pump to see about porting it and im wondering if failures were spring tension related or sticking relief valve and or bore? Was it failure of pump gears or housing? Please anyone with knowledge on this reply.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

LS1derful,

It's my understanding, one of the Katech's blew up because too much material was removed when the casting flash was ground out. This make sense to me as Katech told me the casting flash is removed by hand grinding.

It's also my understanding, the relief valve stuck on many of the stock ones. As I understood it it stuck because of the bore/piston not because the spring wasn't strong enough.

Maybe the other's with first hand experience can expound futher.

Viper

iTrader: (6)

I'm assuming mine was the relief valve; it wuld read zero, but as soon as you started moving the pressure came back. As soon as JPR opens the motor up I'll know what caused the failure.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by theblur98ss:
<strong>No one has said which they really prefer....katech, ARE or new ls6.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Katech - Cleans up housing. Micropolishes bore & plunger. Spring is not shimmed so no increase in oil pressure. Katech said oil pressure might be a tad higher or tad lower etc. The oil pressure is viewed as being fine as is. More oil pressure for our applications just eats up more power to drive the oil pump. Under some conditions, slightly low oil level with high pressure could increase the risk of the sump going dry. I went with Katech.

ARE - Cleans up housing. Micropolishes bore & plunger. Spring is shimmed so increase in oil pressure.

MTI - Cleans up housing. Micropolishes bore & plunger. Spring is shimmed so increase in oil pressure. I considered the MTI unit.

MMS - Maybe Terry Burger or someone can tell us what MMS does. I don't know.

Stock - it is what it be

Stock LS6 - I don't know.

SRP - My heads and cam installer, stated they hadn't done a first hand port and polish test yet on an LS1/LS6 oil pump yet. I asked Jesse if he'd wanted my car to be the first with a ported SRP oil pump. SRP said, they didn't offer a ported oil pump because they hadn't tested one on Jesse or Brads personal car yet. SRP said if they did offer a ported oil pump at some point, they would clean up casting flash, micro polish the bore & piston but not shim the spring for more oil pressure, because in our typical applications, the additional pressure would just eat up more power.

Pretty muich the samething Katech told me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

<small>[ November 24, 2002, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: 99 Black Bird T/A ]</small>

LS1derfull

Since pump is crank driven instead of cam driven like SBC it makes sense that raising oil pressure would not be necessary since output at crank speed would be high. But on the other hand shimmed bypass spring would make relif valve less likely to stick open, and that is of benefit also.

theblur98ss

iTrader: (71)

No one has said which they really prefer....katech, ARE or new ls6.