general cam question
general cam question when a cam has a "+x" after the specs what does that mean?
IE- "+2"
IE- 224/228 .590/.604 114lsa +2
what does that +2 mean?
if you install that cam dot to dot as in on 0* does that mean the cam has been retarded or advanced?
thanks,
Tyler
IE- "+2"
IE- 224/228 .590/.604 114lsa +2
what does that +2 mean?
if you install that cam dot to dot as in on 0* does that mean the cam has been retarded or advanced?
thanks,
Tyler
from what i have read on here and i may be incorrect on this but the +2 is the amount of advance that was ground into the cam and aligning the dots is correct to recieve that advance.
Originally Posted by ty_ty13
when a cam has a "+x" after the specs what does that mean?
IE- "+2"
IE- 224/228 .590/.604 114lsa +2
what does that +2 mean?
if you install that cam dot to dot as in on 0* does that mean the cam has been retarded or advanced?
thanks,
Tyler
IE- "+2"
IE- 224/228 .590/.604 114lsa +2
what does that +2 mean?
if you install that cam dot to dot as in on 0* does that mean the cam has been retarded or advanced?
thanks,
Tyler
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Originally Posted by Alex @ CMS
retarding the cam gives you more peak hp, advancing will give you a broader powerband. Most cams are ground to make the most of the valve events to give you the best of both worlds.
Try this 230/228 .592/.588 111-1
What do you see in the valve events VS the same cam on a +4?
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Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
Are you speaking of a certain pattern cam or in general?
Try this 230/228 .592/.588 111-1
What do you see in the valve events VS the same cam on a +4?
Try this 230/228 .592/.588 111-1
What do you see in the valve events VS the same cam on a +4?
On this specific cam the +4 will give you 2* degree overall overlap and increases the DCR by .3, over the -1. VE stays 2-3% higher after 4000rpm. It should peak and carry much better than the -1.
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Originally Posted by Alex @ CMS
I was speaking in general.
On this specific cam the +4 will give you 2* degree overall overlap and increases the DCR by .3, over the -1. VE stays 2-3% higher after 4000rpm. It should peak and carry much better than the -1.
On this specific cam the +4 will give you 2* degree overall overlap and increases the DCR by .3, over the -1. VE stays 2-3% higher after 4000rpm. It should peak and carry much better than the -1.
224/236 .601/.602 114lsa
i'll tell you where it peaks after you guess
im actually having problems thats why i asked cam questions... it's a bit different with a blower than a na application.
What size blower? Heads? pulley ratio? compression?
On a NA 408 with stock ls6/6.0 heads i would expect this cam to make Peak Hp @ 5800 peak tq @ 4800
What size blower? Heads? pulley ratio? compression?
On a NA 408 with stock ls6/6.0 heads i would expect this cam to make Peak Hp @ 5800 peak tq @ 4800
Originally Posted by Alex @ CMS
it's a bit different with a blower than a na application.
What size blower? Heads? pulley ratio? compression?
On a NA 408 with stock ls6/6.0 heads i would expect this cam to make Peak Hp @ 5800 peak tq @ 4800
What size blower? Heads? pulley ratio? compression?
On a NA 408 with stock ls6/6.0 heads i would expect this cam to make Peak Hp @ 5800 peak tq @ 4800
holy ****... my blown motor is peaking at 5830 rpms... so what does that mean?
Originally Posted by ty_ty13
holy ****... my blown motor is peaking at 5830 rpms... so what does that mean?
It doesn't mean anything just that you have a very linear power band. Are you looking for more peak or more under the curve?
You have to remember that Hp is 100% dependant on TQ, the key to making more Hp is to get a cam or degree it so that it will carry the TQ band longer.
im wanting to carry the HP further in the rpm range.... if it made the same power at a higher rpm and kept carrying the power until i let up i would be fine with it.... right now i have a 12bolt and 3.73's is as low numerically as i can go and still have a spool... sooner or later the car will be trapping in the 14xmph in the 1/4 and hopefully 11x in the 1/8th... and 5800rpms is not near enough power band...
another thing is i have a 7.65 crank pulley and a 3.4 BP and at 5800rpms thats 53500 impeller rpms on the d1sc... which is another 850 below max impeller rpms...
with my pulley setup 6700rpms is push the blower about max impeller rpm... i realize that pushing it to max impeller rpm is not neccessarily the best thing... since 62000rpms is the max on the d1sc i'd like to push it to around 58000rpms
this would make me shift at about 6400 rpms...
with my pulley setup 6700rpms is push the blower about max impeller rpm... i realize that pushing it to max impeller rpm is not neccessarily the best thing... since 62000rpms is the max on the d1sc i'd like to push it to around 58000rpms
this would make me shift at about 6400 rpms...
Last edited by ty_ty13; May 9, 2007 at 03:27 PM.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Originally Posted by Alex @ CMS
I was speaking in general.
On this specific cam the +4 will give you 2* degree overall overlap and increases the DCR by .3, over the -1. VE stays 2-3% higher after 4000rpm. It should peak and carry much better than the -1.
On this specific cam the +4 will give you 2* degree overall overlap and increases the DCR by .3, over the -1. VE stays 2-3% higher after 4000rpm. It should peak and carry much better than the -1.
Advancing the cam makes it more exhaust biased, more peaky if you want, I'm trying to understand what you mean by "carry" much better.
Is it like carry the power longer after Hp peak, or carry more power after trq peak?
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
Now if the cam is more intake biased from TDC, IVO 1* or 2* sooner than EVC froim TDC, doesn't that mean that the cam will carry the power longer after peak? (in general)
Advancing the cam makes it more exhaust biased, more peaky if you want, I'm trying to understand what you mean by "carry" much better.
Is it like carry the power longer after Hp peak, or carry more power after trq peak?
Advancing the cam makes it more exhaust biased, more peaky if you want, I'm trying to understand what you mean by "carry" much better.
Is it like carry the power longer after Hp peak, or carry more power after trq peak?
In this perticular case the 230/228 .592/.588 111+4 will carry the power longer after peak HP and make more average Tq.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Originally Posted by Alex @ CMS
In general a cam with a more ground-in advance will carry longer after peak but it will not peak as high.
In this perticular case the 230/228 .592/.588 111+4 will carry the power longer after peak HP and make more average Tq.
In this perticular case the 230/228 .592/.588 111+4 will carry the power longer after peak HP and make more average Tq.
These are the VEs of both cams:
230/228
111 LSA/ 112 ICL (-1)
IVO>3
IVC>47
EVO>44
EVC>4
ECL>110
7* overlap
230/228
111 LSA/ 107 ICL (+4)
IVO>8
IVC>42
EVO>49
EVC>-1 (BTDC)
ECL>115
7* overlap
That doesn't jive with what you're telling me.
Clearly the +4 is very exhaust biased, making the power band lower in the range, IVC of 42 will also make it peak earlier Vs 47 IVC.
If the cam peaks later, it is also natural that it will carry further into the rpms.
The trq on the 44 EVO will also be more pronounced in midrange and will come earlier on. 49 EVO will also make that trq stretch longer instead of falling off rapidly after peak.
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
Alex,
These are the VEs of both cams:
230/228
111 LSA/ 112 ICL (-1)
IVO>3
IVC>47
EVO>44
EVC>4
ECL>110
7* overlap
230/228
111 LSA/ 107 ICL (+4)
IVO>8
IVC>42
EVO>49
EVC>-1 (BTDC)
ECL>115
7* overlap
That doesn't jive with what you're telling me.
Clearly the +4 is very exhaust biased, making the power band lower in the range, IVC of 42 will also make it peak earlier Vs 47 IVC.
If the cam peaks later, it is also natural that it will carry further into the rpms.
The trq on the 44 EVO will also be more pronounced in midrange and will come earlier on. 49 EVO will also make that trq stretch longer instead of falling off rapidly after peak.
These are the VEs of both cams:
230/228
111 LSA/ 112 ICL (-1)
IVO>3
IVC>47
EVO>44
EVC>4
ECL>110
7* overlap
230/228
111 LSA/ 107 ICL (+4)
IVO>8
IVC>42
EVO>49
EVC>-1 (BTDC)
ECL>115
7* overlap
That doesn't jive with what you're telling me.
Clearly the +4 is very exhaust biased, making the power band lower in the range, IVC of 42 will also make it peak earlier Vs 47 IVC.
If the cam peaks later, it is also natural that it will carry further into the rpms.
The trq on the 44 EVO will also be more pronounced in midrange and will come earlier on. 49 EVO will also make that trq stretch longer instead of falling off rapidly after peak.
I see what you are saying, When i say VE i don't mean Valve Event, I'm talking Volumetric Efficiency of the motor.
In this case the for what ever reason whether it be the cam's ability to eliminate residual exhaust in the combustion chamber or just sheer luck, the physics behind the +4 will make more power and carry it further with almost identical power under the graph.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Yeah, but VE depends on the total combo (head flow, head design, valve angle, plug position, quench, DCR, exhaust setup etc...)
In this case the Valve Events dictate the maneurism of the cam.
Combo properly matched, the -1 cam will go higher in the rpms with a flatter longer lasting Hp average after peak.
That is what It is designed to do, no luck
In this case the Valve Events dictate the maneurism of the cam.
Combo properly matched, the -1 cam will go higher in the rpms with a flatter longer lasting Hp average after peak.
That is what It is designed to do, no luck
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
Yeah, but VE depends on the total combo (head flow, head design, valve angle, plug position, quench, DCR, exhaust setup etc...)
In this case the Valve Events dictate the maneurism of the cam.
Combo properly matched, the -1 cam will go higher in the rpms with a flatter longer lasting Hp average after peak.
That is what It is designed to do, no luck
In this case the Valve Events dictate the maneurism of the cam.
Combo properly matched, the -1 cam will go higher in the rpms with a flatter longer lasting Hp average after peak.
That is what It is designed to do, no luck
We just have Different Points of View On Cam Theory;
On this cam We will just have to agree to disagree.
