Error in Cam Selection; Trying Again
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TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 364
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From: Chicago; South Side
Error in Cam Selection; Trying Again Last spring I installed the cam listed below in my sig. I gained 30 rwhp but only 10 rwtq due to the fact I still run cats. My exhaust was not as free flowing as I needed.
I'm going to swap cams in a few weeks again. My car is an M6 with all bolt ons and is a DD. I go to the track once a year and I have not dipped into the 12's. I've run a best ET of 13.17 at 110.30 mph.
I'm going to go for a 224/224, but the I need to understand what the differences in performance would be between the two cams listed below. I don't really need much more hp, but I do want more torque.
Comp Cams 224 224 .581 .581 112
Thunder Racing 224/224 .563/.563 112 LSA
The lift will be a bit easier on the TR cam, but after that I don't know the performance differences. I appreciate all input. Thanks.
I'm going to swap cams in a few weeks again. My car is an M6 with all bolt ons and is a DD. I go to the track once a year and I have not dipped into the 12's. I've run a best ET of 13.17 at 110.30 mph.
I'm going to go for a 224/224, but the I need to understand what the differences in performance would be between the two cams listed below. I don't really need much more hp, but I do want more torque.
Comp Cams 224 224 .581 .581 112
Thunder Racing 224/224 .563/.563 112 LSA
The lift will be a bit easier on the TR cam, but after that I don't know the performance differences. I appreciate all input. Thanks.
Tell us about your current cam:
Duration, lift, LSA, advance.
What did you like? What did you not like? What are your future goals? Be realistic.
Duration, lift, LSA, advance.
What did you like? What did you not like? What are your future goals? Be realistic.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 364
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From: Chicago; South Side
Current cam is:
228 222 .588 .581 114.5 Comp Cams
It idles nice and sounds good. I just did not get much torque out of the deal. So I'd like more grunt, more low end pull. I'm fine with a bit more chop in idle, my wife won't get in the car anyway. I do not want to wind the engine much past 6400 rpms. This will probably be the last upgrade for several years. HP at the current 370 rwhp is okay as I'm running 4.11's and a 12 bolt. Thanks.
228 222 .588 .581 114.5 Comp Cams
It idles nice and sounds good. I just did not get much torque out of the deal. So I'd like more grunt, more low end pull. I'm fine with a bit more chop in idle, my wife won't get in the car anyway. I do not want to wind the engine much past 6400 rpms. This will probably be the last upgrade for several years. HP at the current 370 rwhp is okay as I'm running 4.11's and a 12 bolt. Thanks.
Originally Posted by noah89
Current cam is:
228 222 .588 .581 114.5 Comp Cams
It idles nice and sounds good. I just did not get much torque out of the deal. So I'd like more grunt, more low end pull. I'm fine with a bit more chop in idle, my wife won't get in the car anyway. I do not want to wind the engine much past 6400 rpms. This will probably be the last upgrade for several years. HP at the current 370 rwhp is okay as I'm running 4.11's and a 12 bolt. Thanks.
228 222 .588 .581 114.5 Comp Cams
It idles nice and sounds good. I just did not get much torque out of the deal. So I'd like more grunt, more low end pull. I'm fine with a bit more chop in idle, my wife won't get in the car anyway. I do not want to wind the engine much past 6400 rpms. This will probably be the last upgrade for several years. HP at the current 370 rwhp is okay as I'm running 4.11's and a 12 bolt. Thanks.
Granter the TR224 is a Great cam but why not move it up to a TR230-224 or even a bit larger with a TSP Torquer 2? you would still keep it under .600 lift and work within your powerband
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Chicago; South Side
Ignorance on my part to be truthful. I want to retain stock manners to some extent. I figured going beyond the 224 would mean higher rpms that I'm looking for and the power coming on later then what I wanted. The problem with the original choice was the I only gained 10 rwtq.
Last edited by noah89; May 10, 2007 at 05:54 PM.
Originally Posted by Alex @ CMS
Why would you want to go through the cost and effort for a smaller cam?
Granter the TR224 is a Great cam but why not move it up to a TR230-224 or even a bit larger with a TSP Torquer 2? you would still keep it under .600 lift and work within your powerband
Granter the TR224 is a Great cam but why not move it up to a TR230-224 or even a bit larger with a TSP Torquer 2? you would still keep it under .600 lift and work within your powerband
To the original poster, what ICL is your cam installed on? Your 114 degree LSA isn't helping you make any torque. Even advanced 4 degrees, your IVC point would be 44* abdc, not optimum for low end torque.
I'd say either of the 224 cams posted would be a step in the right direction, but consider a 110 LSA to get the IVC to 42* abdc.
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Noah,
Maybe I'm missing it, but are you still running stock heads? If you are and you have honestly stated your goals (which I believe that you have), I'd get some good small intake runner heads (e.g. AFR/Edelbrock/Patriot Predators in alphabetical order). Then I'd go with something like a 218/224 on a LSA of about 114 or even a 212/218 on about a 112 LSA. You don't have to have an intake/exhaust split (for instance, the Thunder 220/220 112 might be a great cam), but I don't think that a reverse split like your current cam is of any real benefit. That way, you'll have gobs of torque, lots of throttle response and lot's of fun as a daily driver. It doesn't sound like strip performance should be of paramount value to you and your car will be a joy rather than a pain. I'd go with a lift of about .560". That's just my two cents.
You can just do the cam first and I think that you need to change the cam as a starting place. Later, you can change the heads if budget is an issue. You asked about a cam change, but in my opinion, you need both to meet your stated goals.
Best of luck in your choice! You're on the right track.
Steve
Maybe I'm missing it, but are you still running stock heads? If you are and you have honestly stated your goals (which I believe that you have), I'd get some good small intake runner heads (e.g. AFR/Edelbrock/Patriot Predators in alphabetical order). Then I'd go with something like a 218/224 on a LSA of about 114 or even a 212/218 on about a 112 LSA. You don't have to have an intake/exhaust split (for instance, the Thunder 220/220 112 might be a great cam), but I don't think that a reverse split like your current cam is of any real benefit. That way, you'll have gobs of torque, lots of throttle response and lot's of fun as a daily driver. It doesn't sound like strip performance should be of paramount value to you and your car will be a joy rather than a pain. I'd go with a lift of about .560". That's just my two cents.
You can just do the cam first and I think that you need to change the cam as a starting place. Later, you can change the heads if budget is an issue. You asked about a cam change, but in my opinion, you need both to meet your stated goals.
Best of luck in your choice! You're on the right track.
Steve
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On The Tree
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Old Bridge "Raceway Park" N.J.
Originally Posted by noah89
I go to the track once a year and I have not dipped into the 12's. I've run a best ET of 13.17 at 110.30 mph....
12 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Pa
I can only speak from my experience with the TR-224/224 112 cam that i presently have in my car. Cam is great for my car since it is a daily driver and great powerband range for cruising the streets since i am like you and maybe go to the track 1 time a summer. Cam in my car laid down 394 rwhp and 393 torque. As far as preformance last time i hit the track i went 12.4@121 with a **** 2.1-2.2 60' with my dry kit and this cam. Good Luck,,
Banned
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Naperville, IL
I agree with what steve said about the heads.
Also, if you're maintaining a more restrictive exhaust you should go with a reverse split. Something even 6-8 degrees longer on the exhaust side. If I remember correctly, you want the exhaust CFM to flow 80% of your intake CFM. To do that with a free flowing intake with a catted exhaust, you need to hold the exhaust valve open a little longer. And to bump the torque you need a tight quench on the heads (thinner gasket is the easiest way), and close the intake valve a bit earlier (this was one of the ways to bump DCR).
Someoone feel free to correct me if my memory is erronious.
Also, if you're maintaining a more restrictive exhaust you should go with a reverse split. Something even 6-8 degrees longer on the exhaust side. If I remember correctly, you want the exhaust CFM to flow 80% of your intake CFM. To do that with a free flowing intake with a catted exhaust, you need to hold the exhaust valve open a little longer. And to bump the torque you need a tight quench on the heads (thinner gasket is the easiest way), and close the intake valve a bit earlier (this was one of the ways to bump DCR).
Someoone feel free to correct me if my memory is erronious.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 364
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From: Chicago; South Side
Thanks guy. Keep it coming. My 60 ft. times were 2.20 on street tires. My driving ability leaves a lot to be desired. Thanks again. Speak your mind as no comments will offend me. I've raised 4 kids through college so I've got thick skin. Or, at least a big gut.
your hp/ tq nembers seem a bit low even with the 12 bolt and 4:10 cogs imo,i would of thought that cam would get you up to about 370 rwtq but it could be the 114 hurting some as well. with a drag radial and something like a 228/232 on a 110 on xer lobes or maybe an lsk lobe on the intake side would bring both hp/tq up and you still wouldn't have to rev it over 6500. it would idle rougher but with a good tune it should be very driveable.
is your current tune spot on ?
is your current tune spot on ?
On The Tree
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 191
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From: Old Bridge "Raceway Park" N.J.
Originally Posted by noah89
My 60 ft. times were 2.20 on street tires. My driving ability leaves a lot to be desired....
A nice set of Micky Thompson drag radials would really help out your track times. because you've got to be spinning them street tires pretty hard. I would think your car ought to be a torque monster. I use to run a TSP TV2 which is a little bigger than your cam is and it was a torque monster but that was thru an stalled A4 and a M6 is probally alot different. Oh yea make sure you sneak out to test and tune every chance you get and practice.See how cars like yours are setup and pick up a few pointers from the locals.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Chicago; South Side
Heads are stock. If they change, that will be several years in the future. Life has too many other expenses. After the cam issue is resolved, the car will just get the normal high priced maintenance; clutch, tires, brakes, the usual. I'd like to get the torque up to about 375 rwtq with hp being about the same. Thanks guys.