Possible fix for oil pump O ring sealing problems>
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From: SW Florida
Possible fix for oil pump O ring sealing problems> The more I think about it, the more I think that we could solve a lot of these oil pickup tube to pump sealing problems with a gasket.
[IF] the pickup tube's O ring gets sealed correctly in the pump, it seals very good, however, it seems like many folks have what they thought was a properly installed O ring, just to find out they have low/erratic oil pressure. This happened when I reassembled my engine after a cam/chain install. I [know] damned well the O ring was on the tube correctly when I bolted it togather. After running the engine, my pressure was poor with heavy lifter noise when warm. Pulled it apart just to find a missing O ring!
I think a gasket could be made to go between the mateing surfaces of the tube and pump. Even though there is only 1 bolt holding these two pieces togather, a gasket would complement the O ring, and keep air from being sucked into the pump if the O ring had a sealing problem.
Remember, where the the tube and the oil pump join is above the level of oil in the crankcase. Thats why it sucks air into the pump. A gasket would seal this very well.
Once the pump is removed for a chain change, it would be easy to fab a gasket using standard gasket material. Then apply black silicone sealant between the gasket and the pump. Let it cure prior to install. This will also keep the gasket alligned properly on the pump, and make the install easy (not fighting with a gasket/or it's alignment) while installing the tube into the pump.
Just an idea that I believe would give very good piece of mind and illiminate air sucking into the pump.
What ya think?
Ron,
[IF] the pickup tube's O ring gets sealed correctly in the pump, it seals very good, however, it seems like many folks have what they thought was a properly installed O ring, just to find out they have low/erratic oil pressure. This happened when I reassembled my engine after a cam/chain install. I [know] damned well the O ring was on the tube correctly when I bolted it togather. After running the engine, my pressure was poor with heavy lifter noise when warm. Pulled it apart just to find a missing O ring!
I think a gasket could be made to go between the mateing surfaces of the tube and pump. Even though there is only 1 bolt holding these two pieces togather, a gasket would complement the O ring, and keep air from being sucked into the pump if the O ring had a sealing problem.
Remember, where the the tube and the oil pump join is above the level of oil in the crankcase. Thats why it sucks air into the pump. A gasket would seal this very well.
Once the pump is removed for a chain change, it would be easy to fab a gasket using standard gasket material. Then apply black silicone sealant between the gasket and the pump. Let it cure prior to install. This will also keep the gasket alligned properly on the pump, and make the install easy (not fighting with a gasket/or it's alignment) while installing the tube into the pump.
Just an idea that I believe would give very good piece of mind and illiminate air sucking into the pump.
What ya think?
Ron,
Re: Possible fix for oil pump O ring sealing problems> A friend and I were thinking the same thing minus the RTV sealant. After speaking with MTI and TR they both thought that putting the sealant on there has a chance of flaking off. Then getting stuck in the pickup tube screen and is not really worth the chance. The gasket itself on the other hand to me sounds like a logical bandaid if you will.
I think GM slacked on this o-ring because to me its a too big of a risk for as deep in the motor as it is. I have been thinking it would have been nice of them to make a little bigger o-ring and make a grooved seat for it to sit in on the pickup tube. That way it doesnt have the chance of getting stuck in the pump and also getting crooked allowing air.
Sorry for the long post but I have been having oil pressure issues here lately and this problem is really getting to me.
Good idea Ron. I just havent had the gumption to post it.
I think GM slacked on this o-ring because to me its a too big of a risk for as deep in the motor as it is. I have been thinking it would have been nice of them to make a little bigger o-ring and make a grooved seat for it to sit in on the pickup tube. That way it doesnt have the chance of getting stuck in the pump and also getting crooked allowing air.
Sorry for the long post but I have been having oil pressure issues here lately and this problem is really getting to me.
Good idea Ron. I just havent had the gumption to post it.
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From: SW Florida
Re: Possible fix for oil pump O ring sealing problems> Personally, I would still use black silcone sealant between the gasket surfaces (after the surfaces were completely clean of oil). Jeeze, you use it on the ends of the pan gasket.
I wouldn't worry about a sliver of it in the pump, I will bet my whole O ring went through the pump. I can tell you for a FACT, that it was on the tube the first time I put it back togather, and it was completely missing after it took it back apart. I would wager the my soul on that!
I even pulled the old pump apart after removing it. That O ring was gone....
Ron,
I wouldn't worry about a sliver of it in the pump, I will bet my whole O ring went through the pump. I can tell you for a FACT, that it was on the tube the first time I put it back togather, and it was completely missing after it took it back apart. I would wager the my soul on that!
I even pulled the old pump apart after removing it. That O ring was gone....
Ron,
Re: Possible fix for oil pump O ring sealing problems> Ever tried weather strip adhesive to hold a gasket in place works great! Just get the black 3M stuff & it goes bad if unused, so use fresh tube. The gasket could help if made in such a way that it doesn't interfer with the o-ring & displace it.
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From: SW Florida
Re: Possible fix for oil pump O ring sealing problems> "The gasket could help if made in such a way that it doesn't interfer with the o-ring & displace it"
The O ring is far enough down from the mating surfaces, it should not interfere at all. It has been a while since I pulled my pump, but I seem to remember that there is a large enough flat area on the mating surface of the tube (where the bolt goes through) to sucessfully use a gasket.
The O ring is far enough down from the mating surfaces, it should not interfere at all. It has been a while since I pulled my pump, but I seem to remember that there is a large enough flat area on the mating surface of the tube (where the bolt goes through) to sucessfully use a gasket.
Re: Possible fix for oil pump O ring sealing problems> Ron you are correct since I have been looking at my pump alot here recently. There is enough room because the o-ring sits up about 1/4" away from the mating surfaces. The more I read this post the more I keep thinking about try it out. If I do try it ill let everyone know if it works.
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From: new england
Re: Possible fix for oil pump O ring sealing problems> Ron, i think most problems with o ring are caused by dragging motion of pickup tube across opening in oil pump, this situation is worsened by double roller timing chain oil pump spacers. I think nicks in o-ring are at fault more so than inability of set up to seal properly.Gasket idea is not a bad one but, since pickup is clamped on one side only, o ring should be best way of keeping seal with uneven clamping pressure. Just my thoughts on this, i think starting the bolt anxietys, and difficulties are responsible for most o-ring damage.
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Re: Possible fix for oil pump O ring sealing problems> There's something else that no one has mentioned. When building a brand new motor, if the pickup tube is too low or touching the pan, you will get oil starvation. Make sure you measure and have at least 1/8" between the bottom of the tube and the floor of the oil pan.
