How To Gain TQ
09-09-2007, 01:18 PM
#41
Originally Posted by slow trap
i'm in on the changing heads bandwagon also. with a set of 62-64 cc heads and a set of .040 gaskets you will probably see 20-25 ftlbs of torque down low where you are wanting it. the gaskets alone will probably gain between 7-10 rwtq if i was guessing. gears will make a big difference as already mentioned. you could possibly throw in a couple more degrees of timing to see if it picks up alittle but i would watch it for spark knock.
As mentioned i am going to do gears. And if i add more timing, my car had idle hang big time. The tuning for the cam, the PCM is very, very picky
09-10-2007, 12:12 PM
#42
Originally Posted by TORCHD 02 TA
Maybe the same question i don't remember. the cam has +4 built into it, when it was installed, it was dot to dot. (straight up) the cam card had all the specs that i wanted. So whoknows. I would do head gaskets. jsut not sure if i want .040 or .035. Would need to run them on the excel spread sheet that was created. And what 'budget' heads are all you talking about?
Thanks
Thanks
Just because the cam card has the specs you want, and the cam is installed dot to dot, you can't be certain your cam is installed at the exact IVC you are looking for. Basically, even though all the right signs are there, you could have less dynamic compression than we are calculating, because we're assuming your IVC.
1) Comp cams typically run large, and larger lobes will close the valve later, dropping DCR
2) A cam doctor report may show the LSA and/or IVO are slightly off, not the same numbers your cam card would show
3) Timing sets, crank and cam keyways can all vary to a certain extent
If all of these tolerance stack against you, you may be much lower than you think. While I'm certain your cam is installed dot to dot, we can't be certain of your DCR without degreeing the cam and finding the exact Intake Valve Closing point.
Gears will help mask the issue, but getting the details right may mean that you don't need gears. Case in point: Patrick G is running a much larger cam at 238/242 112, but since all the guess work has been eliminated by his meticulous attention to detail, it is apparently working well with only a 3.73 gear. With 10 degrees less duration, you should be fine with 3.42's.
09-11-2007, 07:47 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by hammertime
The tuning of LS1/LS6 and FAST manifolds is geared toward a peak torque at 4800, and peak HP about 6300. Your cam should complement that pretty well.
A tight LSA like your 110 often gives a more concentrated hit in the midrange, sacrificing some of the power outside that range. A cam with the same duration, but a wider LSA like a 114 would likely not achieve the peak torque that you have, but should carry it over a wider powerband.
That said, thinner gaskets are your best bet, and on a budget, LS6 heads would get your DCR right where you need it for around $650 - $700 for complete heads, gaskets and new bolts.
A tight LSA like your 110 often gives a more concentrated hit in the midrange, sacrificing some of the power outside that range. A cam with the same duration, but a wider LSA like a 114 would likely not achieve the peak torque that you have, but should carry it over a wider powerband.
That said, thinner gaskets are your best bet, and on a budget, LS6 heads would get your DCR right where you need it for around $650 - $700 for complete heads, gaskets and new bolts.
The 110 will make a broader and sooner hitting torque curve and still pull RPM up top. It brings HP and TQ curves closer together rather then further apart like the wider lsa's tend to do and thats why people try to grind the advance in on the intake lobes. To get the torque to come in a little sooner...Take those cams and retard them, it will pick up that torque. Torque=hp! You just need a tuner that knows how to find it all.
09-11-2007, 11:26 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by TORCHD 02 TA
If i degree my cam, wont it have 8 degrees of timing since it already has +4 grounded into it?
09-12-2007, 01:01 PM
#46
Originally Posted by BOWTIE
No, when you degree it, you are basically just measuring where it is. We are not suggesting you just go out and get a multiple keyway gear set and advance it another 4 degrees. We are suggesting that you check it to make sure it is what you want and that is installed where you want it. As I stated earlier, cams are not always ground correctly (there was one such case posted here before where a cam was ordered either +2 or +4 and the cam card matched what was ordered but the cam was actually ground 2 degrees off. Comp stood by it and ground the guy a new one which was ground with the right advance and additionally was ground much more accurately than his first). I would just like you to be sure you have what you think you have. Hell what if it is supposed to be ground with 4 degrees of advance, but has none. That would make a huge difference in your TQ curve down low. Then imagine you have another couple of degrees in retard with your gear set and key way, then all of a sudden you are 6 degrees retarded. Now I am not suggesting this is the case as these numbers would suggest extremes of which I have never heard of, but how do you know.
Ok all i know is that the cam was installed dot to dot. And it is supposed to have +4 grounded into it. So i have no idea. I am not about to go pull the cam out and check. i will get heads, thinner head gaskets and gears.. BAM GOT TQ
09-12-2007, 02:08 PM
#47
Originally Posted by TORCHD 02 TA
Ok all i know is that the cam was installed dot to dot. And it is supposed to have +4 grounded into it. So i have no idea. I am not about to go pull the cam out and check. i will get heads, thinner head gaskets and gears.. BAM GOT TQ
Once you measure, you can verify whether or not it was ground correctly, and that the installed Intake Centerline Angle is what you desired. If it measures out just right, you're done. If the numbers are off, you can figure out how far it needs to move to get it where its supposed to be. Only in the event that it is retarded would you need to pull the timing cover and either use an offset key, offset bushing or an adjustable timing set to get it where it is supposed to be.
I suggest to you this reading from the cam guide:
How To: Properly Install And Degree An LS1 Cam And Timing Set
09-12-2007, 04:23 PM
#48
Originally Posted by hammertime
You don't have to pull the cam to check at all. Just pull the plugs, find TDC, install a degree wheel, pull the driver side valve cover and measue the VE's. Obviously I've over-simplified the process, but these are the core requirements.
Once you measure, you can verify whether or not it was ground correctly, and that the installed Intake Centerline Angle is what you desired. If it measures out just right, you're done. If the numbers are off, you can figure out how far it needs to move to get it where its supposed to be. Only in the event that it is retarded would you need to pull the timing cover and either use an offset key, offset bushing or an adjustable timing set to get it where it is supposed to be.
I suggest to you this reading from the cam guide:
How To: Properly Install And Degree An LS1 Cam And Timing Set
Once you measure, you can verify whether or not it was ground correctly, and that the installed Intake Centerline Angle is what you desired. If it measures out just right, you're done. If the numbers are off, you can figure out how far it needs to move to get it where its supposed to be. Only in the event that it is retarded would you need to pull the timing cover and either use an offset key, offset bushing or an adjustable timing set to get it where it is supposed to be.
I suggest to you this reading from the cam guide:
How To: Properly Install And Degree An LS1 Cam And Timing Set
