Paul J.

To end the controversy if I had my own tuner shop, I would:

-Optimize the package, whatever it may be (Cam only, Heads/Cam, etc).
-Dyno the car
-Run the car at the nearest strip, record DA,car weight, temp, A4 or M6, etc.
-Record MPH over 1/4 mile.
-Post results, RWHP, MPH, weight, DA, temp, gear ratio, converter, shiftpoint, etc.

MPH/Vehicle weight is the best indication of power in my opinion and how it delevered over the RPM range. Notice, I did not mention ET.

I think this would end any controversy.

Paul J.

OSR 1

Well just got hame from working on our camaro trying to get it ready for testing in fL
before the texas race by ls1 tech.
We are sorry for getting everyone cranked up over our post and we probally should have waited for more data and testing
What we did was seat down with a clean sheet of paper and thought what could we do to make a lot of power with out removing heads or short block
what we came up with 5 cam grinds that we think are very much like a small block cam
a lot of duration,fast ramps,different lifts
the first cam had a lot of lift made almost the same power but after testing it felt 918 springs would be the weak spot
2nd cam has average lift,tons of duration
with tuning car idle good drive great,but still needs to go to the track.
other 3 grinds will go in totally different cars in the next 2 weeks.
we will keep you posted and when we are done we will offer these cams
we unlike maybe some other shops make our money by doing installs and tuning just selling cams mail order does not pay the bills BUT i will sell them mail order because i think it is right!
now for some issues coming up:
1st correction factor-talked today to dean at new england dyno and was learned in correction factors so for all who think they know
cf was .97 on that run,what that means when we dyno uncorrected the dyno sheet says actual because that is what the dyno read at that time
sae;is the correction factor(.97x447rwhp)which equals the sae numbers we posted(430)the reason we were never told about cf is because it is built into the program for sae
2ND ANY BODY WHO KNOWS KEVIN,GUY OR ME knows we dont screw around (dyno games)but i will be taking this car to mass and paying one of the sponsors to dyno this car and anyone who knows me will tell you if dean at NED says my dyno is off i will be the first one to tell you
3rd we mite be wrong but we feel that this car has a great exhuast stepped header,merge collector,custom y pipe with merge y collector which we will be selling this system for almost the same price as the slp sysyem we are very proud of this exhuast and we feel that it is key to the power this car makes(we will test this cam in a zo6 and ramair ta both with stock manifolds in the next week)
4th I dont know what else to say but I will talk to the owner of this car and get him to bring this car to texas with us for the shoot out so any body who whats to dyno it or watch it go down the track or take it apart it willbe their
thanks

GrannySShifting

iTrader: (10)

There was a big dyno trick, an aluminum flywheel <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

BUT, Id still like to see the cam card for this thing. If you shoot me the current LS1 Edit file, I bet i could help along a flat spot in the torque curve as well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

RAMBIRD2002

Actually It's a billet steel flywheel, CNC lightned to 12.5lbs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

John B

iTrader: (10)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> the correction factor(.97x447rwhp)which equals the sae numbers we posted(430)the reason we were never told about cf is because it is built into the program for sae </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well if this is the case then you deserve a hero's medal for putting up with all of the crap in this post Ken and I'd be happy to get in line and buy this cam after you prove it out with ported heads. Absolutely killer numbers....I am beyond impressed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> Awesome R&D work!

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

You're correct when you say they are no magical cams for the Ls1. If the car in question is a freak with Ls6 heads from the factory, yes it might be possible. Otherwise, nope I need more proof.

RAMBIRD2002

For all the head sceptic's the head's are stamped 241, the last I knew that was an ls1 casting correct me if i'm wrong?

98TAauto

iTrader: (2)

personally I think it can be done.. I mean if no one knew Mike H and he came here and posted, "Hey guys I went 10.98 cam only" would you believe him?? Probably not <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

I mean 3 years ago it was one hellova task to run 11's stock internally. Now look <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

Ive seen a 224 comp cam pull 399 on stock heads in a bolt on M6. Jason pulled what?? 410?? who knows, maybe 431 was pulled <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> If it was, let get some of those cams out here for sale.

I do have one question though, you say its a whole package?? So does that mean if someone has say SLP headers, and you did that with FLP's would we have to switch to pull those numbers?

Its no doubt the perfect combo can put down serious numbers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" /> But I saw screw the dyno and put the sucker on the track! Thats my dyno.. 431 dont mean squat if I cant pull a low 11 or upper 10pass with it <img border="0" alt="[chug]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_chug.gif" />

PAULJ99Z

Just a few thoughts:

On my flow bench, LS1 heads usually peak out at 225-230 CFM @ 28" at .400-.450" lift and stay flat on up. Max theoretical HP from a V8 would be around 450-460 HP at the crank for an IDEAL set up. This translates to 390-400 RWHP for a M6 and about 370-375 hp from an automatic unlocked.

Am I missing something here or is what I have learned all along not true for the LS1.

LS6 heads flow around 250 CFM (My bench) so it is possible to have upwards of 500 flywheel HP or 425 (M6) and 400 (A4) RWHP.

What does everyone think?

Paul J.

gator's 99TA

iTrader: (2)

how much is your cam package? what does it include? does it have to be installed inhouse and dynoed in shop like LGM?

NoGo

iTrader: (2)

I'm done argueing.

I tell you folks not to purchase JUST THE CAM.

I tell you that it is a PACKAGE. If you had been reading you would have noticed that it will be RELEASED SOON.


We even debated putting these results up because of the collection of people that live on here to do nothing other than put on their war helmet and hang out behind their monitor.

If you purchase this package, you will make similar power. If you want to put your own hodge-podge together and then blame all the different companies for why you don't make power, then enjoy sub-par performance for twice the cost <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

If you don't believe us FINE. Go tell all your friends we're full of crap too. We'll see you and them at the track <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

FYI: The ESP package cars are going to be the ones running behind our 9 second Camaro.

Signing Out,
Kevin

NoGo

iTrader: (2)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by gator's 99TA:
<strong> how much is your cam package? what does it include? does it have to be installed inhouse and dynoed in shop like LGM? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The full pricing and package will be out soon. Give the shop a call if you have any questions.

No you don't have to dyno it in shop. Your more than welcome to dyno it where ever you please.

Y2K2LS1

Are you all on the same level or what?

You guys boast about achieving 420 thru the muffler and 430 open Y WITH STOCK HEADS. What these people are asking is, with all the same bolt ons as you guys used, they should be able to make the same #'s (or close) to what you guys made ON STOCK HEADS.

What matching of cam to heads? YOU GUYS HAVE STOCK HEADS ON THE CAR, SO PEOPLE WANT TO USE YOUR CAM IN THEIR STOCK-HEADED CAR. You comprendo?

Geez!


Personally I dont want to put heads on my car, I want to leave them stock. If others are able to get the same or close to the same #'s as you guys did on stock heads, I'll give you my credit card # this instant and you can chalk me down for one. If you are selling this as a $6000 H/C package only, I like many others, are not interested, thankx.

The Juggernaut

iTrader: (7)

Aren't we talking 'cam only' with bolt-ons?
Why do I see you throwing around phrases like
"head work...heads to match the cam,ect..?
I have ALL the bolt-on's.
I dyno'd HIGHER than you did.

I'm not trying to bash you.
I'm simply trying to find the most power possible.
*IF* you made 431 rwhp on STOCK,UNTOUCHED heads
WITHOUT dyno tricks,I will pay you 1,000.00
for that cam.
Just the cam.(no springs,retainers,ect)

I'm not implying you didn't make that power.
(I really hope you did)
If you did,I WANT THAT KIND OF POWER.
Period,end of story.

Let me know.
It is a PERFECT opportunity for you to make a
name for yourself.

Mike Hoffpauir

Nogo I'm pretty sure you dont know but this is the reason 01-Z and Fenris Ulf are confident about 01-Z's setup.

01-Z 11.549 117.820 1.60 3090 +1612 01 Z28 N N N N/A 346 M6

Y2K2LS1

I'd like to see this cam in another m6 car, minus the flywheel, on a Mustang Dyno. Those would be numbers i can relate to!

Fly By

No, an Aluminum FW is NOT a dyno Trick. pumping up tires to 50#s is, spraying keyboard cleaner in the intake is, placing the ambient air temp sensor in advantageous places is.

Something that makes the car ACCELERATE is not a trick. Think about it. Pro Stock Warren Johnson uses an ACPT DS. Is he using "Dyno Tricks"? I think not.

A car will go faster if you can put more to the ground. Smaller clutch, lighter DS, more efficient rearend and gearbox ect. Those are not dynotricks.

Do we have to come out and make a list on what is and what is not a dynotrick? Jesus, I feel like im in the poopra forums <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />

ESP, nice job <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RAMBIRD2002:
<strong>For all the head sceptic's the head's are stamped 241, the last I knew that was an ls1 casting correct me if i'm wrong?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, it is. It's also the same number that's on nearly every ported/polished LS1 cylinder head casting as well, no? But correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm not really sure what this proves or disproves (other than that they're clearly not LS6 heads of course) though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

I am just curious how recently H/C 346ci cars are putting out as much horsepower as 7 to 9 psi Vortech's with stock heads and cam..? How is a cam only setup pushing almost as much air in the intake as a powerdyne running 6psi? I would really like to know what the MAF rate of these new packages are showing.

RAMBIRD2002

Hey Vince, I cant' answer your question but NOGO can he is the guy you need to talk to. Maybe he will chime in soon. He took care of all the tuning issue's............Hey Kevin can u help out with your expertice. <img border="0" alt="[worship]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" />