PewterZ28

iTrader: (1)

Well if you did look at my log you would see that injector duty cycle was in the single digits for most of my 15 minute drive. I don't know if that means anything. Also, my O2s were reading in the low 900's. My car is tuned in open loop so the O2s do not oscilate. In my opinion they kind of provide me with backup data saying all is well (ie not too rich or not too lean).

Sharpe, I still have my stock heads I can put on my car but unfortunately I am not a millionare that can afford such experiments.

Azrael

iTrader: (10)

I was told ETP had a bunch of LS7 style heads "recalled" for coolant passages not aligning. Although I had heard it was a problem exactly as you described, but specific to the LS7 heads. Have you contact ETP and see what they have to say?

What do you plan to do with the ETPs?

PewterZ28

iTrader: (1)

Right now I have people telling me my shortblock is toast so I am hoping someone like Erik Koenig will take a look at the pictures I have posted and give me his opinion. Until then I have a feeling I won't be getting much sleep tonight.

But to answer your question, no I have not contacted ETP. I have my reasons for not wanting to deal with them again. Besides, I bought the heads from FTI (Ed Curtis) so I will let him deal with ETP. EDIT: Actually my shop DID call ETP and spoke to Craig. Craig said the problem was probably in the block and not the heads.

A customer needs to go through the distributor who sold him the parts. I work for an engineering and manufacturing company that builds can lines for all of the big canmakers (Rexam, Ball, Crown Cork & Seal). We sell preassembled and integrated structural systems which includes conveyance, piping and line control. If there is a problem with the conveyance should we tell our customer to take it up with our conveyance supplier? Heck no! We supplied the conveyance system therefore we are responsible for fixing the problem.

Furthermore, I will not be 100% certain the problem IS the heads until I get the Trick Flows installed. Until then all I am looking for from Ed is willingness to help. So far I haven't seen it.

What I'm looking for right now from you guys is for a few engine builders to chime in with their opinions of the pictures I have posted. A few days ago I thought my only problem was overheating. Now a few comments have me concerned about my shortblock as well.

brad8266

iTrader: (23)

What you need to do if you are concerned about the cylinders is get a set of heads on there and run a compression test, that will 100% verify if your cylinders and pistons are in good shape, and I would put $$ on it that it checks fine. Dont take people on the internets word for it, run the check yourself. I would put the stock heads with an old gasket and just check for compression consistencies. It wont take but like an hour or so to slap a set of heads on ande crank the motor over a few times with the compression checker in each cylinder.

PewterZ28

iTrader: (1)

We put our fingernails to the cylinder walls and we could not feel any of the vertical lines. Furthermore I just heard that a local engine builder stopped by the shop today and took a look and he said it looked great. The shop owner also thinks there is nothing wrong with my cylinders. So I think maybe some ls1tech members are thinking a little too hard about this and reading too much into the pictures that I have posted.

Tech

iTrader: (1)

racer7088

Hey Derrick I got your pm and actually everything looks pretty normal and fine from these pictures I would say. Could the head gaskets have been on backwards? This will make the water short-circuit the heads or maybe a thermostat is stuck etc? Do you have any pics before you pulled the heads? You can see by the tabs if the gaskets were on wrong then.

Most of the water goes back through and around the cylinders and then comes up the two bigger holes at the rear of the block and all the way back through the cylinder head to the front and back out the other hole in the front of the block. If you run the bigger holes in the front then the water just goes back out the block without fully circulating through the rest of the block and cylinder heads.

KVU

iTrader: (1)

The short block looks fine. The vertical lines seem to be normal scratches from the pistons or small amounts of material present durring assembly. Nothing to worry about.

If it was me, I would redrill the coolant passages and not look back. End of story...

racer7088

Make sure the head gaskets are on right but yes if a passage doesn't line up you can redrill it as well and aluminum is easy to drill! Just make sure you know what you are doing and that the gaskets are on right as well.

racer7088

Sorry Derrick I didn't see this earlier!

KVU

iTrader: (1)

much easier than cast iron...I had the pleasure of doing it on some world product heads (for my 400 sbc). This was with a hand drill.

..This seems like the "correct" fix for Derrick's situation..

brokeTA

iTrader: (9)

I don't think "drilling" the holes out would be a good idea. He does not know for sure if that is the only problem. On top of that why pay this much money for a set of heads, and have to "modify" them to make things right? If the problem is indeed the heads I think this whole matter should be handled by Ed and ETP.

I agree with what you said Derrick. I think some people are looking to hard at this situation, and thinking too long. This is an overheating problem that spiraled way out of control, and now your shortblock is shot.. Like I said yesterday, the block work looks fine. There is no evidence of any kind of premature wear problems.

PewterZ28

iTrader: (1)

Just to clarify, I think what he means is that my overheating problem suddenly, in some people's minds, turned into much more than a overheating problem...when in fact there is nothing wrong with my shortblock. In summary, this is still just an overheating problem, nothing more.

Moving forward, I understand the thinking behind drilling the holes bigger but I have two problems with this approach. First of all, like Andy said, why should we have to modify a $2500 cylinder head to make it work right? Secondly, again like Andy said, we are not positive there isn't additional problems with the coolant passages. What if we drill the holes and reinstall only to find out the engine is still overheating. Then what? Do I go through all steps again only to end up taking off the heads yet again?

I am working with another vendor on this site on a set of Trick Flow heads. If the engine no longer overheats then I will try to get Ed or ETP to either buy back my heads or replace them with a brand new set. If they replace them I will put the new set up for sale at a good price and finally be done with all of this. Just maybe if I'm lucky I might be able to drag race once before the season is over.

Many thanks to everyone who has tried to help! I will chime in once we get the new heads installed and the engine running.

Sharpe

iTrader: (7)

About when do you think that will be? Just curious.

PewterZ28

iTrader: (1)

Just as soon as I can get the heads. If the vendor finds me a set of 225 small bore Trick Flows today then I will purchase them today and ask them to ship them today. Redline would probably receive them sometime Monday and install them on Tuesday if they are not too busy. That is best case scenario. Worst case scenario would be to find out the 225 small bore Trick Flows have a long lead time.

Oh yeah, more than likely Redline will have to measure and order me some new pushrods too. I doubt my current set of pushrods will work with the Trick Flows.

ISeeRed

iTrader: (1)

GM shuts the cooling fans off at highway speeds.......They will not counter act the flow.

cablebandit

iTrader: (37)

see my thread in gen iii internal....a passage on each of my etp heads was off and i had to redrill it. funny thing is the vette they came off of never had an onerheating prob so maybe you got more off

sapper_daddy

iTrader: (12)

Man yeah those are some crazy looking heads.....dunno, might be worth looking into fixing them or just rock on with some new heads and sell the ETPs

As far as the short block goes and I know you have peace of mind about it, just wanted to say that before reading the following posts it's eassy to see how fresh things are, the cross hatch from the machining of it is easy to see....but it's not like you have a million miles or passes on it, you said you ran your fingernail around the inside and there isn't anything else crazy going on. If you feel comfortable w/o compression test (I wouldn't worry about it at this point) I'd move on and not worry about a spooky couple of comments. GL get it done!

robertbartsch

So what was the verdict here; bad heads that block the coolant flow?

I don't like the verticle lines on the bores but I suppose I have seen worse.

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

Don't take this the wrong way but if you put those ETP heads back on, your a fool.

I'd dump them quick. You shouldn't have to drill bigger holes in a set of $2,200+ "Top of the line" heads to make them work. To me those are sub par parts. I wouldn't be surprised if the heads got slightly warped due to the high temps.

Good luck and I can't wait to see the post from you in a more positive direction after you get a new set of heads on.