robertbartsch

...the C5R blocks I am seeing, are $6,500 bare!

If I was going that way, I would do a Darton-sleaved block, right? Why is a C5R better than a Darton? Do Darton's have reliability issues too?

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I see the C5R's for $6100 bare, and if I was going to build a NA setup I would use one of those.

4.000 stroker crank is the biggest I would ever go in a motor that is <4.150 bore.

RyanJ

the C5R's are not resleeved to reach 4.125 bore. they are built with that bore, just like your stock block and 3.898" bore. bad part is they are also built for dry sump, so you'd have some holes to fill.

anyway, I can't say where I saw the price on the block/crank combo, but I will say it was through someone on the board...keep looking if you really want some of that stuff.

the stock stroke is 3.622 so 4" is pretty big. and there's a difference between max torque and a lot of flat usable torque. sure the longer stroke will help...but your choice for cam and heads really tell you the power under the curve. contact Thunder Racing (or just Jason99TA) about a 408" iron block he helped build. it made 510rw and nearly 500ft-lbs with a solid roller.

smeshey

iTrader: (2)

Ok I am a bit confused here. For the budget minded person here. A sleeved aluminum block is $3500 a c5r block is $6100 and a iron block is $500 last I checked thru G.M. So my question is even with $1000 worth of machine work to an iron block. Which I think would be high. You save $2000 by using the iron block. Yes you do add 80lbs to the nose of the car, but what else could you do with the other $2000 to make up for 80 lbs. tubular k member tubular uppers and lowers, smaller battery, light weight wheels, light hood, and probably a few more extras.Then you still have the stronger bottom end with the iron block. Someone set me staright here if this doesnt seem correct.

RyanJ

a sleeved block can be had for less that 2500.

robertbartsch

Ryan:
Is the sleeved block you refer to a Darton block? If yes, and I go with a stroker crank, I also will need to incur the cost of clearancing the block, right?

Is this something that can be done without the assistance of a machine shop?

RyanJ

honestly i don't know what clearancing needs to be done on an LS1/LQ4 block for 4"+ cranks. A wet sleeve (i think) from MTI is pretty cheap (it could be a darton though)??? Tony (nineball) would know. Your best bet to avoid machining woe's is simply get a stock block used, a only bore it to fit 3.905" pistons. Diamond has bad-*** off the shelf pistons and people are running as fast as 10's NA and 9's on the dope with 346-348" motors. of course..if you realllly wanted an iron motor...id call TSP and get crank and rods, call diamond for custom pistons, and get a truck block bored to 4.040. that would get you 392cid i believe and it would KICK for an NA set up. Just get a big-ol honkin cam and some yella terra rockers. then when futral puts in intake out....you could see in excess of 460-470rwhp with the right tune.

robertbartsch

...my thoughts are to go with a larger cubed engine....

...it does not seem cost effective to use a stroker crank in a stock block to achieve 383CI. it seems to me that if you going to pay for a forged billet crank that you might as well go >400CI???

10.5 Dave

iTrader: (5)

ARE big bore is $2400.00 not $3500.00.6.0 block is 90-95 lbs not 80 lbs.I question iron block is stronger than Darton sleeved block,only certainty is its 90 lbs heavier.I'm clueless why someone would "save" maybe 1k on a block than spend 2k on the above parts to offset the added weight .I would have never bought my 6.0 block if I knew what I know now.You guys should ask yourself why alot of the guys that had 6.0 blocks in the past have gotten rid of them(PSJ myself many others).Its not because its stronger or better.I it was me I would save a little longer and get the sleeved block.At a later date do the other weight reduction mods as the wallet permits.You wouldnt be handicapped by the extra lbs. Just my 2 pennies

rodent

iTrader: (1)

ARE Big Bore Alum Blocks are $2400 plus a $500 core.
Total = $2900

No core charge for a new GM iron block.
Total - $400-$600 (used-new)

If you have a core laying around, than great but I didn't since I'll be selling my stock LS1 complete to help pay for this over-priced engine build. The sleeve blocks are nice but thats still too much for me to spend on a block. If anything, I would of just stayed with the stock bore size (alum) and not go sleeved.

I still think an iron block can handle more boost than alum. (excluding C5R) Aren't the 03 cobra's iron compared to the previous years which are alum?

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=1881

Supra=iron.

If anyone can PROVE that an iron block is not stronger than a alum block then I'd be more willing to shell the money for the alum. I'd rather have an engine that would live longer on boost than one thats lighter not to mention I'm saving a few bucks so I can still take the wife out for a nice dinner.

robertbartsch

...thats affirmative on the iron blocked '03 Snake...

So if I go with an ARE aluminum block at $3K, add new pistons and rods, balancing I'm over $4.5K with a stock crank...this does not make economic sence, right?

What is the max CI for a Darton ARE block with a stock crank - 383?

robertbartsch

I looked on the ARE web page. True they have sleeved blocks for reasonable amounts - $2,500 with core.

However, it does not say Darton-sleeved blocks....

Anyone know about these?

Considering the number of horror stories about dropped sleeves, I woould be reluctant to go with anything less than a Darton sleeved block. Right?

rodent

iTrader: (1)

I thought ARE helped Darton design the sleeves. I wouldn't worry about any of ARE engines doing that. ARE is the way to go if you went this route.

So thats $2500 with core charge or is the core extra? Where did you see that? I found their block prices here:
http://www.agostino-racing.com/pdf/B...re%20Block.pdf

Slow Z28

iTrader: (19)

don't forget shipping costs for the blocks to you, and your core block there.

anyways, what i really wanted to say is, that if i wanted a sleeved block, i'd go ARE. however they have their sleeves, it wouldn't matter to me because if they are running 8's on the same type block i'd be getting, then i'd have no worries.

Chris

robertbartsch

it does not seem cost effective to go with a 383 stroker with the stock bored block ...is that a dumb generalization?

RyanJ

I'd trust ARE. Max bore is 4.155" i think on a darton. You can go bigger...maybe 4.200"...MTI actually said that so I don't know.

Anyway, like I said, I think a big crank is a big waste. People are making 450/450 with a SMALL cam...peaking at like 6100 on a 382cid. Its probably what you want.

robertbartsch

Ryan:
Well that is my point I suppose ...with H/C I'm near 420rwhp now...

with the 383, however, i assume the torque under the curve is bigger throughout the hole (no pun) rpm range, right?

..So is all this worth the extra dough?

ls1290

iTrader: (20)

Why is that Isn't the stroke length more of an issue of deck height and rod length?

RyanJ

are you talking 383 all bore? or 383 all stroke? check down a few threads in this forum for a post from 'jfm' about lunati stroker kit power. Its a pretty interseting comparo going from 400rwhp 346 to a 460rwhp 383.

if this is a straight street car...less rpm is better (imo) and more power under the curve ALWAYS wins. plus, any combo (given the same heads/cam) will make more power with more cubes.

-rj

robertbartsch

Ryan:
So you would keep the stock crank and go with a sleeved block and new pistons for an all-bore 383?

So the cost is $2,500 for the sleeved block and $600 or so for the pistons...??? I don't need new rods, right?