squall01

iTrader: (3)

well, i finally got the beast on the road again. mods are: ms3, prc 2.5 heads, pacesetter LTs, TSP catted y-pipe, magnaflow catback, QMP air lid, slp MAF, and TSP mail order tune. i realize this cam is pretty aggressive, so the roughness and all that i'm cool with. the problem i'm having is in parking lots, she bucks like a bronco sometimes, then at speed, if the revs drop below 2k, it starts sputtering. the back bumper i turning black, so i know it's runnin MAD rich!! i'm just lookin for some advice...after around 8 grand in repair, mods, and labor, i'm runnin a little low on credit. can't really afford a dyno tune at the moment, with christmas creepin up. BUT, i do have retunes for a year from TSP. should i at least send the pcm back to them and see if we can smooth it out a little? i was gonna drive it back home for thanksgiving to a buddy's dyno just to get some graphs to send back with it, but i don't think i trust it driving 600 miles like this. plus, i don't think he has WB on his setup yet. what do you guys and gals think?

--bill

P.S. - Mods, if this belongs in tuning, please move.

angelR

iTrader: (7)

Sounds like it needs more tuning... that is if everything else is up to snuff and working correctly. Make sure you have no vac leaks, exhaust leaks and that all sensors seem to be good, from there contact tsp about a retune if the problem persists.

radkon

iTrader: (2)

Problem is the mail order tune. Your VE table, MAF tables, and timing need work and the bucking will be reduced or eliminated.

marv

iTrader: (40)

I agree with Rad...ditch the mail order tune and find a way to get it on the roller.

I think that'll help with most of your problems.

A check of the 02s would also be a good idea to make sure they're functioning as expected.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

You don't need a dyno tune, you need a comprehensive driveability tune. Your TB will need a bigger hole, your TPS sensor will need to read 0% when closed, your IAC counts need to be between 30-60 with the AC off and your running airflow needs to be dialed in to what the motor wants. This is all before you begin your street tune. If you don't address the RAF tables first, you'll be chasing your tail later.

You can't do this mail order because there are many mechanical issues on your car that need to be sorted out first.

One last thing, cats on a cam with that much overlap is not going to live up to its full potential. Back pressure is the devil with that much overlap.

squall01

iTrader: (3)

if i was still living in WV, i would've gone ory. here in PA, they use the sniffer, i really had no choice. as for ditching the mail order tune...i just want to get it to the point where i can actually drive it to a dyno.

patrick, what sort of mechanical issues do you mean?

squall01

iTrader: (3)

forgot to add that one of the cats was crushed by the jackasses at the exhaust shop. that's gettin fixed tomorrow. how big of a problem could that cause? i'm really not this big of an idiot, just know very little about how the computer works.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

You need to make sure there are no vacuum leaks and no exhaust leaks (these will whack out your O2 sensors). You need to make sure your plugs and O2 sensors are fresh. You need to get your TB blade cracked open more or your TB hole drilled big enough to get your IAC counts between 30-60 at idle. Your TB must read 0% with throttle closed. These are all mechanical issues. Unless they are all perfect, your tune will never be right. Don't waste your time or a tuner's time until these are all 100%.

BJSS25

iTrader: (1)

Contact Alvin at pcm4less.com, he can do you a really good mail order tune. He done my car. I have the ms3 cam, ported ls6 heads, bolt-ons, lt's, tsp true duals, 3800 stall,4.10 gears. My car drives perfect with no bucking or surging. I didn't have to modify the throttle body hole or anything.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Low speed bucking and surging is very different with a 6 speed than an automatic. Automatics with high stall converters rarely have low speed bucking and surging. The only time you might notice it would be when locked up in OD at lower speeds. Trust me, tuning a 6 speed car with a big cam to perfection is difficult to nail by mail order. Sure you can get close, and TSP certainly has the skills to get him into the ball park. But it sounds like his issues go beyond that and a comprehensive street tune is in order.

kkslds

iTrader: (59)

No offense to the guys at TSP but my mail order tune was no where close. Ed pulled out an additional 78rwhp and made it driveable. Get a dyno tune and problem solved... If everything else is correct as stated above.

squall01

iTrader: (3)

when you say street tune, are you talking about the TB adjustments and verifying that all the sensors are working properly, and there are no vac/exhaust leaks?

Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.

iTrader: (3)

Picking up 78 RWHP from a tune is impossible unless there is something wrong with the car. If people could gain 78 RWHP from a tune, people would be making 550 RWHP with heads/cam setups. We do 15-20 mail-order tunes a week with great results. As expected, you can't always get the tune 100% perfect with a mail-order tune. But, that's why we have one year of free updates with our tunes.

Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance

squall01

iTrader: (3)

you'll be seein my computer comin at ya very soon. i have faith in you guys.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

That's just the start. A proper street tune addresses all the driveability issues. Idle quality. Cold starts. Bucking and surging. Cruising and fuel economy.

VE tables, airflow tables, throttle cracker and follower tables, spark tables all have to be tweaked to give the motor what it wants. The short term fuel trims need to be in the single digits at all times. It takes hours of logging to do it right.

squall01

iTrader: (3)

trevor -- is this something you guys could get close with the MO tune?

if not, does anyone know of a shop in pennsylvania that can do it? i've heard very good things about mike and rapid motorsports.

mikey

iTrader: (6)

Hi Bill,

Patrick is correct. You need to make sure the idle tuning is done first and this can take the most time. Throttle position, IAC counts, RAF differ from car to car so a mail order tune won't get you 100% correct. It's a guessing game. TSP will get you close but to get it 100% dialed in, you will need to get it to a tuner. With a cam that size, sometimes it's better to just go SD. Also, in PA we don't have a sniffer only OBDII scanning which makes it easy

Mikey

marv

iTrader: (40)

Well, I guess that's more of what I meant...but good catch.

Any tuning above and beyond the mail order would help...but yeah, a full driveability tune would be great.

squall01

iTrader: (3)

wait wait wait...so i can go ory and not worry about inspection? i was told they do sniffer tests here.

SchukyDucky

i got pretty much the same setup as bill but with a 12-bolt 4.10's. i know i need new 02 sensors. recommend any, i was thinking about vette ones instead of buying extensions. also how much leaner would my car run with an ls6 intake instead of stock. MO tune by TSP has aftermarket intake programmed. or that is what they say.