minivette

Here's another from a friend with an 02 WS6. Oil is Redline 10W-30. I believe this car had less than 12k miles when the sample was taken.



What it looks like to me is that even though the Royal Purple thinned out (I'm still not sure how much) the wear to the Z06 is very comparable,(in most areas) better in some, close in others. The only one where it is higher that both of the others is actually Tin, where it shows up as a 5 vs 3 (Redline) and 1 (Mobile 1) which you don't recommend.

Patman

That report you posted above says Pontiac 4 cylinder though? It's not a very impressive report, however the engine is still very new, so those wear metals will drop drastically.

I still maintain that Redline, Schaeffer Oil or Amsoil are the right choice in oils for the LS1 (and for most cars in fact)

minivette

Yes, I know it says 4 cylinder. He didn't put what cylinder it was when he sent it in and that's the way he got it back. I can definitely tell you it wasn't a 4 cylinder.

Patman, I am just confused by the numbers and the conclusions people draw from them. It seems that you can get them to point somewhat in the direction of whatever oil you prefer. (you means whoever is doing the interpretation)

I'm beginning to think if I posted these same results and said it was Redline, everyone would say it was good.


I'm trying to learn here dammit!

Patman

The wear numbers aren't bad, this much is true, but it's just very troubling that a 10w30 synthetic oil would thin out at all. A high quality synthetic 10w30 should use no viscosity index improvers in it at all, which means you could run it for 10 or 15,000 miles and it would not thin out. But this oil here has thinned out, which is the most troubling thing for me when I view reports with Royal Purple oil.

In my wife's car, I took a sample of brand new Royal Purple and sent it in for analysis, and it came back with a starting viscosity of 11.4cst, which is an upper 30wt oil. I put that same batch of oil into her car, ran it for 2600 miles and it came back at only 8.8cst! (that's a 20wt oil now) No fuel in the oil either (which would thin it out) Her engine does not thin out oil easily either, the previous report from her car was Mobil 1 5w30 Trisynthetic (which normally did thin out in most applications) and the viscosity did not change from new.

It just bothers me so much that an oil that tries to hype itself as being so good for racing and so much better than everyone else, shows this very troublesome tendancy to thin out.

I just don't see why so many people use this oil when there are so many better choices out there. (Redline, Amsoil, Schaeffer Oil or Mobil 1 0w40)

minivette

Ok, I see what you are saying now. I was looking for a result of the oil thinning, such as higher wear. But there really wasn't any. that's what was confusing to me.

One can assume that the thinning oil will cause more wear. I would think that would be correct as well. I may have changed this oil at the very time the wear would start to show, I'll never know tho. I would definitely not prolong the change interval (as suggested) but would run it at a max of 4k or so. But by doing so, I am not getting my moneys worth out of the oil.

Thanks.

robertbartsch

MiniVette/Patman#1:

I think when I submit my oil sample to Blackstone at my next interval I will not give them ANY information.

This way, I will shurely receive a un-biased view. Telling them what oil you used, how old it is, what car it is in and other stuff just gives the analyst information to shade the report against or for any product that he thinks is good or bad....

Can you please ask the owner of the first Z06 to indicate what oil filter he used. This information was NOT provided to Blackstone; they did indicate the filter was great, however....

Is this view based on the lack of trace metals, how can you tell if this is caused by great oil or a great oil filter or both?

This is definately not an exact science; it seems like VOODOO witchcraft to me.

...what do I know, I'm just a CPA/auditor that has a sceptical view... in this case, I believe I am justified.

minivette

Delco Ultraguard Gold UPF-44 to be exact.

robertbartsch

VODOO WITCHCRAFT, VODOO WITCHCRAFT, VODOO WITHCRAFT, VODOO WITCHCRAFT, VODOO WITCHCRAFT!!!!!!

I love Royal Purple and FRAM oil filters!!!!!

Patman

LOL!

:p

gwj

Patman,
I'm a little confused here. Just what is the difference between 0W40 and straight 40 weight?

StevieZ

iTrader: (3)

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not!) but aren't the wear numbers in the 10W30 RP street oil analysis considerably better than the Redline report from the WS6? The Royal Purple wear #s are 1/2 to 1/3 of what the Redline is and that is with 1000 miles more on the oil.

Royal Purple10W30
Aluminum 3
Iron 11
Copper 110
Lead 4


Redline 10W30
Aluminum 10
Iron 23
Copper 263
Lead 13

Look at the lead. To me that says 3 times the amount of main bearing wear with the Redline.
Look at the copper. To me that says 2 1/2 times the amount of cam bearing wear with the Redline.
Look at the aluminum. To me that says 3 times the wear on the pistons.
Look at the Iron. To me that says 2 times the amount of wear on the crankshaft.

Patman

A straight 40wt oil only needs to have a viscosity of between 12.5 to 16.3 cst at 100c, while in order to be a 0w40, it needs to have that viscosity too, but it also needs to have cold cranking performance that is less than 6000cP at -35C. In other words the straight 40wt oil will be rather thick and won't flow very well at cold temps, while the 0w40 oil will be the same thickness as the straight 40 when it's at operating temp, but it'll be able to handle cold temps too.

Straight weight oils are pretty much obsolete now.

Patman

Those results cannot be directly compared. You're looking at a Redline report on a brand new engine, which of course is going to have more wear metals in it.

Here is another LS1 UOA:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...59935156qVCIDA

StevieZ

iTrader: (3)

And what was the 01 Z06 .....an old clunker??
12K miles is FAR from a brand new engine. Minivette.... what was the mileage on the Z ?

Patman

Here is my favorite Redline UOA of all:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...c;f=3;t=000340


Practically zero engine wear, and in an engine that is notoriously hard on oil too. They label this Toyota engine the sludge monster, since this engine heats up the oil a lot and turns high quality oils into sludge very quickly. Yet Redline performed awesome!

Patman

On the Redline report the engine was at 6k when the sample was taken but was at 3k when the oil was put in, so the engine was still very fresh. In this RP report, the sample was taken at 13k, but the oil was put into service around 9k. Believe me, there is a huge difference in mileage there. At 3k the engine is very fresh and still basically breaking in, while by 9k, most of the breaking in is done.

StevieZ

iTrader: (3)

Patman..... you are now officially comparing apples to oranges.
Here I was pointing out the differences in 2 analysis with 2 very similar motors with what I am sure are 2 very similar driving styles on 2 high performance cars and you bring a Toyota to the table. YOUR report is the one that has no bearing. On top of it, I didn't go searching Bobisthe oilguy or anywhere else on the net to find the best report I could for RP. I just took the RP report and the Redline report from this thread. You can try and deny it all you want. It is there in black and white RP performed better than Redline in these 2 reports.

Patman

It might be comparing apples to oranges, however, like I stated, I'm reporting about Redline in a worst case scenario, in an engine which is notorious for churning up oil and turning it into sludge, but yet in that engine it proved how good a performer it is. Read Terry Dyson's comments on Redline in that thread too.

I don't think you'll ever see Royal Purple do that in those Toyota V6 engines, that engine would turn RP into sludge very easily.

gwj

Patman, thanks for the explanation.
You're still my oil guru (but due to sheer stubborness, I'll run what I want to!)

StevieZ

iTrader: (3)

That's funny, I'm reading 12K miles in the post.

You're making an assumption with that comment, but that's besides the point. My argument is plain as day. By the information shown in this thread on the 2 reports from 2 similar cars , Royal Purple shows much better wear #s than the Redline. This in this case is fact.