Theoretical new setup, gains?
11-19-2007, 09:46 AM
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DCR questions + setup questions well first off im wondering why I only make 410/400 w/ my setup, whats restricting me so much or holding me back?
setups in sig.
someone suggested milling the heads to a smaller cc for more compression and higher DCR. I want this to stay on pump gas how high could I go?
what about a ported fast 90/90 setup? what gains would that give me over the ls6 intake and stock tb.
custom cam? I have the 232/234 .595/.598 112 TSP torquer 2, I love the cam and the down low power, and drivibility, would I loose everything by going to a custom cam ?
Just looking to get the most out of my stock cube 346...what Do you guys think i'd get for gains w/ that setup?
and whats wrong if anything with mine?
Chad
setups in sig.
someone suggested milling the heads to a smaller cc for more compression and higher DCR. I want this to stay on pump gas how high could I go?
what about a ported fast 90/90 setup? what gains would that give me over the ls6 intake and stock tb.
custom cam? I have the 232/234 .595/.598 112 TSP torquer 2, I love the cam and the down low power, and drivibility, would I loose everything by going to a custom cam ?
Just looking to get the most out of my stock cube 346...what Do you guys think i'd get for gains w/ that setup?
and whats wrong if anything with mine?
Chad
Last edited by Nimitz87; 11-19-2007 at 10:21 AM. Reason: new title
11-19-2007, 10:10 AM
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Dyno numbers mean nothing. Take it to the track and find at you mph. That is the real test on the power you are making through the curve. I would say that your numbers should LOOK a little higher, but it looks like you have everything for high end power. I hope you have some gear in that car if it is a M6.
11-19-2007, 10:12 AM
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can someone explain to me how I use the DCR calculator?
I'm getting a DCR of 10+ that can't be right....
im using this one.
http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/DCR_FAQ.html#5
cyl: 8
bore diameter : 3.898
stroke: 3.662
combustion chamber: 62
head gasket thickness: .052 (stock)
head gasket bore: 4.100
piston to deck clearence: 0.10 (stock?)
that comes out to a DCR of 10.4! wtf?
and a static of 10.5:1
Chad
I'm getting a DCR of 10+ that can't be right....
im using this one.
http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/DCR_FAQ.html#5
cyl: 8
bore diameter : 3.898
stroke: 3.662
combustion chamber: 62
head gasket thickness: .052 (stock)
head gasket bore: 4.100
piston to deck clearence: 0.10 (stock?)
that comes out to a DCR of 10.4! wtf?
and a static of 10.5:1
Chad
11-19-2007, 10:13 AM
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Dyno numbers mean nothing. Take it to the track and find at you mph. That is the real test on the power you are making through the curve. I would say that your numbers should LOOK a little higher, but it looks like you have everything for high end power. I hope you have some gear in that car if it is a M6.
theres cam only cars making more power than me, how is my setup for "high end"?
Chad
11-19-2007, 10:23 AM
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A stock bottom end can only breathe so much. You have to either force more air or use nos. So when you go and put biggest heads and cam on a stock bottom, it may not make near as much because it cannot flow what they are capable of. Therefore, you may need more cubes. For example, I purchase a 90mm fast intake and made zero over an ls6. Most likely, I need more cubes to flow more air. The intake can handle more, but my motor just cannot put out. If I added heads, I am sure I will get a little but not as much as if I were to add some real cubes.
11-19-2007, 10:25 AM
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A stock bottom end can only breathe so much. You have to either force more air or use nos. So when you go and put biggest heads and cam on a stock bottom, it may not make near as much because it cannot flow what they are capable of. Therefore, you may need more cubes. For example, I purchase a 90mm fast intake and made zero over an ls6. Most likely, I need more cubes to flow more air. The intake can handle more, but my motor just cannot put out. If I added heads, I am sure I will get a little but not as much as if I were to add some real cubes.
to that, theres quite a few setups making more power w/ a 90/90 on stock cubes. also "big" heads these days are 205's?... a torquer 2 isn't "big"...i'd say middle ground obviously its no TR224, but damn.
Chad
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11-19-2007, 10:38 AM
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I made 0 on my fast intake. But see my girl runs good compared to yours since you want to through the BS flag. I make 400/390 on a 224/224.
Heads can only flow what the bottom end can pull. If you want to be a dyno queen, then you need some help. The track says the real truth and you can take that to the bank.
Heads can only flow what the bottom end can pull. If you want to be a dyno queen, then you need some help. The track says the real truth and you can take that to the bank.
11-19-2007, 10:39 AM
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I made 0 on my fast intake. But see my girl runs good compared to yours since you want to through the BS flag. I make 400/390 on a 224/224.
Heads can only flow what the bottom end can pull. If you want to be a dyno queen, then you need some help. The track says the real truth and you can take that to the bank.
Heads can only flow what the bottom end can pull. If you want to be a dyno queen, then you need some help. The track says the real truth and you can take that to the bank.
thanks for the help anyway
Chad
11-19-2007, 10:47 AM
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I am not saying that at all. MTI was suprised I didn't gain anything. They thought I should have gained 10 - 15 at the tires. But I made 0. It all depends on the setup, and if you can not look outside of the box no one can help you. Why mine made 0, my car was doing all it can do and put a bigger intake was not what I needed at the time. Maybe a need a little better flowing heads that flow a little better than stock. But putting 205's on would be a waste unless you force some air or add the cubes.
You do know that a motor is a air pump?? Pistons pull the air and the heads and cam flow the air. You don't seem to have a problem in the heads and cam area, so like I have mentioned look at the bottom end. Have you verified that you have good compression in each cylinder? Have you done a leak down?
Keep throwing money, you will get there
You do know that a motor is a air pump?? Pistons pull the air and the heads and cam flow the air. You don't seem to have a problem in the heads and cam area, so like I have mentioned look at the bottom end. Have you verified that you have good compression in each cylinder? Have you done a leak down?
Keep throwing money, you will get there
11-19-2007, 12:33 PM
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Max SCR in the 11.5-12.0:1 range, DCR 8.4-8.5 on 91 octane gas, and 8.7-8.8 on 93.
A FAST may add a couple but its expensive (I picked up 8HP with my stock heads and TR224 and a FAST 78)
A FAST may add a couple but its expensive (I picked up 8HP with my stock heads and TR224 and a FAST 78)
11-19-2007, 01:19 PM
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You and I have about the same mods except I have a nw 90m and fast. But I made 400/390 before and after. I always use the same dyno, so I know what has changed after each mod. I gain zero. That could be because the car made all the power it could with the z06 intake and putting a bigger better was not going to change anything. Fact is, 78 are better for smaller cubed cars.
11-19-2007, 02:39 PM
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Please look at my setup in my sig. The fact that u think 205 heads are too big for stock cubes is ridiculous. I'm running a smaller cam and putting better numbers than the OP. To the OP, try getting it retuned, I don't know much about dart heads bc I'm running afr's, how old is your current setup. If your setup is brand new, the numbers do look a little skewed, best way to judge is by s.o.t.p or track times.
11-19-2007, 04:02 PM
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what kind of dyno?mustang dynos usually read lower than dynojets..
and like was said before,take it to the track and see what your trap speed is,that is the best indicator of how much power your putting to the ground..
the first thing i would do is look at the obvious stuff..make sure your plugs are in good shape,vacum lines hooked up,plug wires in good shape,header leaks,etc.
then look at your tune..was it done by a compentent tuner?what was your AFR?how much timing at WOT?a bad tune could leave a lot on the table..
if your tune is good,then i would do a compression test/leak down test to see if there is a problem with ring seal..
but i don't think your that far off from what i've seen on here..even the same type of dyno can read differently from one location to another..
and like was said before,take it to the track and see what your trap speed is,that is the best indicator of how much power your putting to the ground..
the first thing i would do is look at the obvious stuff..make sure your plugs are in good shape,vacum lines hooked up,plug wires in good shape,header leaks,etc.
then look at your tune..was it done by a compentent tuner?what was your AFR?how much timing at WOT?a bad tune could leave a lot on the table..
if your tune is good,then i would do a compression test/leak down test to see if there is a problem with ring seal..
but i don't think your that far off from what i've seen on here..even the same type of dyno can read differently from one location to another..
11-19-2007, 04:10 PM
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I don't need to look at your zig. Read was 66deuce had to say. Sounds like we are on the same track. Talking to you is a waste of time. No I was just stating that it can be over kill when you don't have the correct setup. If everything matches then you will be fine. So take a seat and shut your mouth. Most likely he has something else causing his problem. Fact is you can put to much heads and cam on car. I am not going to take the time to explain, but it is a fact. A better setup will eat that *** all day.
11-19-2007, 04:23 PM
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wow I am not saying that at all. MTI was suprised I didn't gain anything. They thought I should have gained 10 - 15 at the tires. But I made 0. It all depends on the setup, and if you can not look outside of the box no one can help you. Why mine made 0, my car was doing all it can do and put a bigger intake was not what I needed at the time. Maybe a need a little better flowing heads that flow a little better than stock. But putting 205's on would be a waste unless you force some air or add the cubes.
You do know that a motor is a air pump?? Pistons pull the air and the heads and cam flow the air. You don't seem to have a problem in the heads and cam area, so like I have mentioned look at the bottom end. Have you verified that you have good compression in each cylinder? Have you done a leak down?
Keep throwing money, you will get there
You do know that a motor is a air pump?? Pistons pull the air and the heads and cam flow the air. You don't seem to have a problem in the heads and cam area, so like I have mentioned look at the bottom end. Have you verified that you have good compression in each cylinder? Have you done a leak down?
Keep throwing money, you will get there
I wish i would have knew that before i spent then money on my afr 205's
Seem's like afr claim's the 205 is the perfect runner size for the smaller (346-380) c.i engine's
But hell what do they know.
11-19-2007, 06:01 PM
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I don't need to look at your zig. Read was 66deuce had to say. Sounds like we are on the same track. Talking to you is a waste of time. No I was just stating that it can be over kill when you don't have the correct setup. If everything matches then you will be fine. So take a seat and shut your mouth. Most likely he has something else causing his problem. Fact is you can put to much heads and cam on car. I am not going to take the time to explain, but it is a fact. A better setup will eat that *** all day.
11-19-2007, 06:40 PM
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Take a seat and shut my ***, ok there guy. Please explain how 205s and a medium sized cam is overkill for a 346. Read what patrickG did, 500 rwhp with the same heads, fast intake and a medium sized cam. Granted the intake and heads were port matched, and his other bolt ons were top notch, but the facts are facts. Frankly you should stick to embroidering for these cars and staying away from the engine advice. The fact of the matter is until you provide some hard evidence of why 205 heads are overkill, I don't think the hundreds of guys running these heads on their stock cubes are going to change anytime soon. Thanks for the advice though.
Originally Posted by 66deuce
what kind of dyno?mustang dynos usually read lower than dynojets..
tune was done by Chris at rev extreme...pretty well known speed shop here in Tampa. I'm sure someone could squeeze a few more ponies out of the tune but I don't think thats the issue.
I'll do a leak down test and see where I'm at I guess...
oh the combo is less than 5,000 miles old.
Chad