robertbartsch

...i wouldn;t get too hyped about the seliniod operated cam-less valves...GM has stated this will be a low-cost engine... best i could hope for is a dual underhead cam and perhaps varible valve timing....

...remember GM is 20 years behind the Japanese, Germans, and the rest of the industry...

...they are trying to produce a cheap engine that is somewhat competitive against the exotic 4 valve offerings that everyone else is selling...in some respects, they have succedded in this area with the Gen 3.

FEAR THE LS1

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Autoweek C6

CHRISPY

I wonder what bore the block will be

J-Rod

Robert, I would have to disagree with you on your comments that we are 20yrs behind the Japs and the Germans. You have to look at the fact that GM produced a super exotic engine (ala LT5) which is just as advanced as anything out there, but was too expensive when they could make the same power with the LS series engines.

The real question is cost, and economies of scale. GM can and will use the same engine in trucks, cars, you name it. This cuts R&D costs, and allow you to expense tooling and MFG costs across many different product lines. Look at the Ls Series engine right now. It was used int eh Corvette, the F-Body, trucks, and Vans. Thats a lot of engines across a lot of lines. That reduces costs dramatically. Think about an LT5 engine that retailed @ $20,000 vs a LS6 that retails at for less than $5000.

The plain and simple fact is that GM has been able to meet its power and emissions goals at a much lower cost than they could have by tooling up for some hyper-exotic engine package. Its not that they can't build 4 valve v8s. Look at the Northstar and the Oldsmobile Alero. Both are small displacement 4 valve v8s. But, neither will get you the HP or Torque you need without a lot more cubic inches. Sure, they will rev a gazillion RPM, but a 2 valve motor is cheaper and easier to build to make the target numbers...

Also, you may wish to know that BMW buys its automatics from GM now. the 5L60E is what is in the BMW now, and they are made here in the U.S.

You might be suprised how much stuff from the U.S. ends up in "foreign cars" and vice versa.

But, honestly we are not 20 yrs behind...

93Polo

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Dave Hill said that a dual cam in block will not be used in the C6 at Corvetteforum Cruise In this year.

I want to know how much parts will interchange with the current series of motors. Dave Hill did not give an answer.

robertbartsch

Hey J-Rod:
I agree with what you said: In that regard, i said:

******************
...they are trying to produce a cheap engine that is somewhat competitive against the exotic 4 valve offerings that everyone else is selling...in some respects, they have succedded in this area with the Gen 3.
********************************
Just to prove my point, my 94 Honda had variable valve timing, overhead cams, 4 valves, aluminum block, etc. ...GM's first aluminum small block was the ls1 in 1997 - the Japs had this in the 80's!

I'm sure GM could produce a 4 valve motor with all the cool whistles but the Vette would cost $65K, so many would not buy it....

In the 70s I used to be a transmission machanic....we did a rebuild of a late model Rolls Royce one time.....guess what auto transmission it had from the Rolls factory????

A 3 speed GM Turbohydromatic 400!!!!! ...this in a $50K car which in today's dollars is $250,000!

Fulton 1

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Actually aluminum engine blocks have been around for a long time. It was a big deal in the 60's for a while, but there were durability problems. Don't forget about the infamous 4.1L Cadillac either circa 1982. Same with 4 valve heads. Remember the Quad4 was introduced in 1983? Also, GM DID produce a 32 valve V8 (as J-Rod pointed out) beginning in the mid-80's.

robertbartsch

...well the big-block Vette carried an option to get an aluminum 427 in the late 60's ...the cost of the option was twice as much as the base car....so GM only sold a few of these cars primarily for racing....

...I don;t consider that a production engine...

the other early GM aluminum untis were basically real dogs sold in a very few offerings.

..Honda, on the other hand, made every single engine aluminum...and every one had 4 valves, each had multi-port fuel injection, etc....


...the bottom line? ...the GM Gen 3 engines are not even close to being "high tech" ...that is what I like, however....just give me old - cheap technolology, big cubes and the ability to do heavy mods to increase HP so I can blow the doors off a Porsche, BMW, Benz, Ford huffer Snake, and others for 1/3 the price...

GO GM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...just stay away from their common stock ...it is another real dog!

Fulton 1

iTrader: (9)

I'm not necessarily sticking up for GM here or anything, but I'm tired of this "technology" argument. Ironically enough, its getting very old. I do think it gives magazine guys something to write about every month though...

As for the Honda argument, if we have an all-titanium, wankel, turbo, electronically-actuated, super engine that makes 200hp on one hand or a caveman's pushrod V-8 making 400hp on the other, I'm pretty sure I know which one I'll buy...

LEO

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LMAO! Exactly what I was thinking.

onyxxtreme

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tech-schmeck
im with the majority of you guys, gimmi 2 valves and a set of pushrods, please

DONAIMIAN

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As long as its a gen 3 motor im happy.
I like the fact of knowing that all GM V8 motors have the ability to be swapped out. GM has a good thing going, and hope they keep it around for as long as they did the original small block, just improve on the upper half of the motor

PacerX

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Someday, someone besides me and a scant few others are going to be able to evaluate an engine by looking beyond the number of valves it has.

"...remember GM is 20 years behind the Japanese, Germans, and the rest of the industry..."

Bro, step away from the crack pipe.

German uber-motors?

Not on your life, pal. The M3's I6 is less powerful, weighs more, gets worse fuel economy, and is longer and taller than the LS1/LS6 series.

Same goes for the 350Z's V6 (except for the longer part - it IS heavier, taller and wider though).


Great technology there.

Concerning aluminum:
GM has an all aluminum, sleeveless, I4 in the early 70's. It was bolted into countless thousands of cars.

SScam68

iTrader: (20)

Did everybody forget the LT5, does ZR1 ring a bell?

I still don't understand this deal with pushrods being "old technology". Nobody reinvented the wheel folks!!

Seifer

youre crazy. how are we 20 years behind japan? because we dont make 4 valve motors? GM makes pleanty of great 4v motors, but they have heritage, and make a motor pleanty potent with pushrods.

Fulton 1

iTrader: (9)

I didn't forget it. As a matter of fact I sold mine in order to build a "simpler" platform. Well, that and waking up to newly discontinued parts every day. Gotta love the $600 water pump too...