Max Effort "MS4 vs Vindicator"
01-27-2008, 11:25 AM
#1
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Max Effort "MS4 vs Vindicator" Im almost finished building my car
. Its basicly a track car but once and awhile I will take it out on the weekends. I have an MS3 in there right now but am looking to swap it out with an MS4 or Vindicator. Both cams put down great numbers but dont know which one better suits me
. Below are the supporting mods. What do you guys think? Or should I go custom grind?
Completely forged bottom-end with TSP 5.3L stage 2.5 heads. Roll master double roller, kooks 1(7/8) w/ ory, Fast 90/90, 36lbs injectors.
Fully built 4L60E with TCI deep pan and a Yank SS4000 conveter
Moser 9" rearend with detroit tru-trac and 4:30 gears. Full Mad-Man suspention with BMR crossmember.
TNT F2 to come later on
. Its basicly a track car but once and awhile I will take it out on the weekends. I have an MS3 in there right now but am looking to swap it out with an MS4 or Vindicator. Both cams put down great numbers but dont know which one better suits me. Below are the supporting mods. What do you guys think? Or should I go custom grind?Completely forged bottom-end with TSP 5.3L stage 2.5 heads. Roll master double roller, kooks 1(7/8) w/ ory, Fast 90/90, 36lbs injectors.
Fully built 4L60E with TCI deep pan and a Yank SS4000 conveter
Moser 9" rearend with detroit tru-trac and 4:30 gears. Full Mad-Man suspention with BMR crossmember.
TNT F2 to come later on
Last edited by 01 BERGER CAMARO SS; 01-27-2008 at 10:10 PM.
01-27-2008, 11:35 AM
#4
Both the MS4 and Vindicator use very similar valve events. The MS4 uses more aggressive LSK lobes on intake and fast XE-R lobes on the exhaust. The Vindicator uses XE-R lobes on intake and XE high lift lobes on the exhaust. 3rd party testing has shown that the Vindicator is a little more rpm friendly because it is more forgiving of the springs you choose. Both make excellent power as both have very good valve events.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
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01-27-2008, 05:37 PM
#10
I like my MS4, I plan on reusing it on my forged 347. Tsp told me with my combo that ill be close to 500rwhp on motor and the right tune. But the design is there to make the power after that its in the tuners hands but it will make it a little easier with that cam IMHO.
01-27-2008, 10:29 PM
#12
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Vindicator- 240*-244*-.608”-.596” - 112* LSA +4* ICL
3730 = 289*-240*-161*-.358”-.609”
3655 = 297*-244*-160*-.351"-.597"
MS4 - 239*-242*-111* LSA
2130 = 289*-239*-164*-.384”-.649”
3731 = 291*-242*-163*-.359”-.610”
how would they fare against the HPE mega death ?
Mega Death Cam- 244*-242*-112* LSA
3732 = 293*-244*-165*-.360”-.612”
3731 = 291*-242*-163*-.359”-.610”
3730 = 289*-240*-161*-.358”-.609”
3655 = 297*-244*-160*-.351"-.597"
MS4 - 239*-242*-111* LSA
2130 = 289*-239*-164*-.384”-.649”
3731 = 291*-242*-163*-.359”-.610”
how would they fare against the HPE mega death ?
Mega Death Cam- 244*-242*-112* LSA
3732 = 293*-244*-165*-.360”-.612”
3731 = 291*-242*-163*-.359”-.610”
01-28-2008, 06:25 AM
#16
is it really worth the hassle and cost of a cam swap at this point? he's got an ms3, the ms4 isn't going to make much more hp, and if is considering the vindicator, why not just stop f'ing around and buy a t-rex? if you're looking for a "max effort" build, ditch the fast 90 setup and buy a vic jr, then get a custom ground cam somewhere in the 246/254 range on a 108 lsa. get a th350 with a brake and 8" converter and some 410 gears. your setup is far from a max effort build.
i'd guess all 3 of those cams you posted about will make within 10-15 whp of each other and et/mph VERY closely.
i'd guess all 3 of those cams you posted about will make within 10-15 whp of each other and et/mph VERY closely.
01-28-2008, 07:41 AM
#17
is it really worth the hassle and cost of a cam swap at this point? he's got an ms3, the ms4 isn't going to make much more hp, and if is considering the vindicator, why not just stop f'ing around and buy a t-rex? if you're looking for a "max effort" build, ditch the fast 90 setup and buy a vic jr, then get a custom ground cam somewhere in the 246/254 range on a 108 lsa. get a th350 with a brake and 8" converter and some 410 gears. your setup is far from a max effort build.
i'd guess all 3 of those cams you posted about will make within 10-15 whp of each other and et/mph VERY closely.
i'd guess all 3 of those cams you posted about will make within 10-15 whp of each other and et/mph VERY closely.
01-28-2008, 08:48 AM
#18
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Max effort can mean alot to diffrent people
. The reason I want to swap it out is because I have yet to drop in the motor and besides I want to slap the MS3 in my 01 Formula just for fun. I already have everything here at my shop to do the swap so why not
. The set up im running right now is just to get the car on its feet and put down good numbers and track times with a max effort streetable cam. This is my shop car and want to be able to drive it like in my orginal post. Im not going custom grind yet cause im not done getting the MAX EFFORT out of my current set up. Test and trial have alot to do with getting the max out of your ride. Racing is about getting the right combo (Engine, Trans, Suspention and tune). When the time comes I will be swapping parts out for better ones. Hell there already here laying around in my shop LOL
. The reason I want to swap it out is because I have yet to drop in the motor and besides I want to slap the MS3 in my 01 Formula just for fun. I already have everything here at my shop to do the swap so why not. The set up im running right now is just to get the car on its feet and put down good numbers and track times with a max effort streetable cam. This is my shop car and want to be able to drive it like in my orginal post. Im not going custom grind yet cause im not done getting the MAX EFFORT out of my current set up. Test and trial have alot to do with getting the max out of your ride. Racing is about getting the right combo (Engine, Trans, Suspention and tune). When the time comes I will be swapping parts out for better ones. Hell there already here laying around in my shop LOL
01-28-2008, 09:08 AM
#19
is it really worth the hassle and cost of a cam swap at this point? he's got an ms3, the ms4 isn't going to make much more hp, and if is considering the vindicator, why not just stop f'ing around and buy a t-rex? if you're looking for a "max effort" build, ditch the fast 90 setup and buy a vic jr, then get a custom ground cam somewhere in the 246/254 range on a 108 lsa. get a th350 with a brake and 8" converter and some 410 gears. your setup is far from a max effort build.
i'd guess all 3 of those cams you posted about will make within 10-15 whp of each other and et/mph VERY closely.
i'd guess all 3 of those cams you posted about will make within 10-15 whp of each other and et/mph VERY closely.
