Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please)
02-06-2003, 10:47 PM
#81
FormerVendor
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dallas/Wylie Texas
Posts: 654
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) Paul ,
I will worry about what I do and you should worry about what you do. It is easy to point fingers at LGM because we have been busy Road Racing, and have not gone drag racing.
BUT!!!!!
This year will be my first season off from Road racing, and I plan to put together a Drag car.
And when I do, I don't want to hear any complaints, because we will build a drag car with the same innovation that we use building our Raod race cars, and our engines.
And when I show up at the drag strip and run around you, don't complain about my car.
Now, you can say, "yeah LG, bring it to the track, and we will believe you" But when I bring a Cannon to a gun fight, I don't want to hear the cry baby come out of you. Just take it like a man.
Normally aspirated stock cu in with stock crank (not off set ground) and stock sleeves Max overbore of .010 Stock plastic or Holly aluminum manifold
When we are done with this car, if Thunder or anyone wants to run us, heads up, we can follow these rules, as far as the engine. (No stock eliminator cars) And we'll have at it. We can Pump the cars for Cu in, to make it equal.
And Paul, do you really think that you could get 500rwhp by just going to a 10 bolt with 4.10's, steel Z06 clutch, and steel driveshaft? Because that is what we had on Louis' car.
As it was, you had to dump the headers behind the collectors to reach 460rwhp.
So please don't direct a post at me by name, unless you want me to answer back. It could get ugly.
LG
I will worry about what I do and you should worry about what you do. It is easy to point fingers at LGM because we have been busy Road Racing, and have not gone drag racing.
BUT!!!!!
This year will be my first season off from Road racing, and I plan to put together a Drag car.
And when I do, I don't want to hear any complaints, because we will build a drag car with the same innovation that we use building our Raod race cars, and our engines.
And when I show up at the drag strip and run around you, don't complain about my car.
Now, you can say, "yeah LG, bring it to the track, and we will believe you" But when I bring a Cannon to a gun fight, I don't want to hear the cry baby come out of you. Just take it like a man.
Normally aspirated stock cu in with stock crank (not off set ground) and stock sleeves Max overbore of .010 Stock plastic or Holly aluminum manifold
When we are done with this car, if Thunder or anyone wants to run us, heads up, we can follow these rules, as far as the engine. (No stock eliminator cars) And we'll have at it. We can Pump the cars for Cu in, to make it equal.
And Paul, do you really think that you could get 500rwhp by just going to a 10 bolt with 4.10's, steel Z06 clutch, and steel driveshaft? Because that is what we had on Louis' car.
As it was, you had to dump the headers behind the collectors to reach 460rwhp.
So please don't direct a post at me by name, unless you want me to answer back. It could get ugly.
LG
02-06-2003, 11:18 PM
#82
Launching!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Paul @ Thunder:
So Lou on this 500rwhp beast you are gonna build is that going to be through a 12-bolt/9" or through a 10-bolt? Just curious if you are building a dyno queen or a fast car. I would hope you honestly wouldn't want people to believe that you could build a motor like this and go out and run 130+mph on a stock 10-bolt. If you get 500rwhp with a 12-bolt and 430+ gears I'll be the first to congratulate you. But, I think if we put a dyno-prepped drivetrain in Jason's car we would be very close to that number now, wouldn't you say?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Paul </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Did I miss the post where Lou said you could run 130+ on his future solid roller with a stock 10 bolt? Those damn vendors who build those 42x cid superstrokers should quit building those dyno queens because people are going to expect to go 130+ traps on them with a stock 10 bolt too I guess. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> What a weak post.
So Lou on this 500rwhp beast you are gonna build is that going to be through a 12-bolt/9" or through a 10-bolt? Just curious if you are building a dyno queen or a fast car. I would hope you honestly wouldn't want people to believe that you could build a motor like this and go out and run 130+mph on a stock 10-bolt. If you get 500rwhp with a 12-bolt and 430+ gears I'll be the first to congratulate you. But, I think if we put a dyno-prepped drivetrain in Jason's car we would be very close to that number now, wouldn't you say?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Paul </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Did I miss the post where Lou said you could run 130+ on his future solid roller with a stock 10 bolt? Those damn vendors who build those 42x cid superstrokers should quit building those dyno queens because people are going to expect to go 130+ traps on them with a stock 10 bolt too I guess. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> What a weak post.
02-06-2003, 11:36 PM
#83
Staging Lane
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mississauga, ONTARIO
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MADMAN:
<strong> I know this is a dumb question from a chassis builder but why are we racing the dyno????? It is a tool AND only a tool. The dyno isnt going to make you win a race.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">couldn't of said it better myself.
regardless, you will see a direct correlation of those with the respectable times and the packages/parts they use, throughout the country, not just at select few tracks that are known for good numbers, nor from a select few who post ***** on the net "claiming" to have the fastest/bigest/badest blah blah blah.
from that, u will notice the products they use, namely from 2 to 3 tuners in particular, banging off the record runs, with different drivers, in different parts of the country...
too many shooters on the internet....
<strong> I know this is a dumb question from a chassis builder but why are we racing the dyno????? It is a tool AND only a tool. The dyno isnt going to make you win a race.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">couldn't of said it better myself.
regardless, you will see a direct correlation of those with the respectable times and the packages/parts they use, throughout the country, not just at select few tracks that are known for good numbers, nor from a select few who post ***** on the net "claiming" to have the fastest/bigest/badest blah blah blah.
from that, u will notice the products they use, namely from 2 to 3 tuners in particular, banging off the record runs, with different drivers, in different parts of the country...
too many shooters on the internet....
02-07-2003, 12:03 AM
#84
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dallas-freakin'-Texas
Posts: 716
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by BYBYC5:
<strong> it also tells me that dyno numbers mean squat! cmon 415 -430 who cares unless your a dyno *****. WHERE DO YOU MAKE THE POWER IS THE ????. 415 at 4500-redline vs 430 at 6800. no brainer there. DYNOS ARE A TUNING TOOL. take it to thr track to see what ya can do."magical" h/c package. i dont think so, lots of misc things come into play, such as tunning. let someone eles install the "package" and give it their tune and it wont be the same. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're right... unless you're going solely for bragging rights, dyno numbers alone don't mean anything. However, horsepower is a function of torque; these latest packages from LGM and Cartek are laying down some nice FAT torque bands and still making peak power at a relatively low RPM. For instance, I know that LGM recommends a 6500 RPM shift point, with the rev limiter set at 6800. 6500 RPM!! That's only 500 RPM over the factory redline. So it's not like we're talking about a peaky setup that has to be wrapped really tight in order to make its power... that's the most impressive thing to me about these latest numbers, is the breadth of the torque curve... I mean, 350+ RWTQ from 3500 all the way through redline is pretty impressive. Notice that 350 RWTQ in its self isn't all that impressive, but seeing it by 3500 RPM is indicative that these are well-thought out packages here.
Everyone keeps clamoring for track times; guess what?? It's freakin' FEBRUARY!!!!!! It's cold and nasty here in Texas, and even worse in NJ. Tracks aren't open, and even if they were they wouldn't hook for **** 'cause of the temperature. All of you doubters, that's fine. Healthy skepticism is a good thing. However, how about giving these things a chance before you ring the bullshit bell?? It isn't as if these shops aren't willing to back up their power numbers at the track, it's that they can't back up their claims right this very second because of things that are out of their control.
<small>[ February 06, 2003, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: BurnOut ]</small>
<strong> it also tells me that dyno numbers mean squat! cmon 415 -430 who cares unless your a dyno *****. WHERE DO YOU MAKE THE POWER IS THE ????. 415 at 4500-redline vs 430 at 6800. no brainer there. DYNOS ARE A TUNING TOOL. take it to thr track to see what ya can do."magical" h/c package. i dont think so, lots of misc things come into play, such as tunning. let someone eles install the "package" and give it their tune and it wont be the same. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're right... unless you're going solely for bragging rights, dyno numbers alone don't mean anything. However, horsepower is a function of torque; these latest packages from LGM and Cartek are laying down some nice FAT torque bands and still making peak power at a relatively low RPM. For instance, I know that LGM recommends a 6500 RPM shift point, with the rev limiter set at 6800. 6500 RPM!! That's only 500 RPM over the factory redline. So it's not like we're talking about a peaky setup that has to be wrapped really tight in order to make its power... that's the most impressive thing to me about these latest numbers, is the breadth of the torque curve... I mean, 350+ RWTQ from 3500 all the way through redline is pretty impressive. Notice that 350 RWTQ in its self isn't all that impressive, but seeing it by 3500 RPM is indicative that these are well-thought out packages here.
Everyone keeps clamoring for track times; guess what?? It's freakin' FEBRUARY!!!!!! It's cold and nasty here in Texas, and even worse in NJ. Tracks aren't open, and even if they were they wouldn't hook for **** 'cause of the temperature. All of you doubters, that's fine. Healthy skepticism is a good thing. However, how about giving these things a chance before you ring the bullshit bell?? It isn't as if these shops aren't willing to back up their power numbers at the track, it's that they can't back up their claims right this very second because of things that are out of their control.
<small>[ February 06, 2003, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: BurnOut ]</small>
02-07-2003, 12:29 AM
#85
TECH Apprentice
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: NJ
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) i have anidea to stop all the naysayers and prove the claims
create a sanctioning body make up some standardized rules for these races. to back up the HP claims you need an engine pump to check the cid, and a scale to check the weight. then you can get the tire size and gera ratio and simply use the moroso power speed slide rule and that will tell you what RWHP you are generating by your MPH and how many CID it takes to make it.this is not difficult guys. why don't we all get together and put together a standard like the F**d guys do then we can use NHRA correction factors for diff trackes in the country at diff conditions
Jay
create a sanctioning body make up some standardized rules for these races. to back up the HP claims you need an engine pump to check the cid, and a scale to check the weight. then you can get the tire size and gera ratio and simply use the moroso power speed slide rule and that will tell you what RWHP you are generating by your MPH and how many CID it takes to make it.this is not difficult guys. why don't we all get together and put together a standard like the F**d guys do then we can use NHRA correction factors for diff trackes in the country at diff conditions
Jay
02-07-2003, 12:37 AM
#87
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by DenzSS:
<strong> I can't help but wonder how everyone has suddenly came up with a great technological breakthrough at roughly the same time. It seems to me like we're having a big old marketing battle right now in the LS1 market.
I would like to see anyone back up the recent claims on their own. If it is really a heads/cam package, then anyone who knows what they are doing should be able to replicate their results within 10HP or so.
I'm still calling BS on the whole "it is a package" excuse. If the "package" includes running a 50cc combustion chamber, flycutting the pistons, running an ultralight flywheel, and pulling every dyno trick in the book..well, I guess I need to change my definition of a package.
Will these "packages" run on pump gas, or are they sitting on a 12:1CR?
I'm just curious, and I think this needs to be discussed. I have no problem supporting our sponsors, most do a wonderful job. However, I hate BS.
Denz </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are absolutely right!! As consumers we have a right to the information requested of the sponsors instead of being treated like childern and told "We will tell you later." If they do not provide the information now they should not be making claims. They should make their claims later when they are willing to provide information. Otherwise beware of the stuff that flies from these claims. <img border="0" alt="[bullshit]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bs.gif" />
<strong> I can't help but wonder how everyone has suddenly came up with a great technological breakthrough at roughly the same time. It seems to me like we're having a big old marketing battle right now in the LS1 market.
I would like to see anyone back up the recent claims on their own. If it is really a heads/cam package, then anyone who knows what they are doing should be able to replicate their results within 10HP or so.
I'm still calling BS on the whole "it is a package" excuse. If the "package" includes running a 50cc combustion chamber, flycutting the pistons, running an ultralight flywheel, and pulling every dyno trick in the book..well, I guess I need to change my definition of a package.
Will these "packages" run on pump gas, or are they sitting on a 12:1CR?
I'm just curious, and I think this needs to be discussed. I have no problem supporting our sponsors, most do a wonderful job. However, I hate BS.
Denz </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are absolutely right!! As consumers we have a right to the information requested of the sponsors instead of being treated like childern and told "We will tell you later." If they do not provide the information now they should not be making claims. They should make their claims later when they are willing to provide information. Otherwise beware of the stuff that flies from these claims. <img border="0" alt="[bullshit]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bs.gif" />
02-07-2003, 03:58 AM
#88
On The Tree
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) How is knowing the specs of the cam or anything else going to change anything?
If they sell it as a package deal then you get the package.
It would be nice to know the specs, but it doesn't make an once of difference in the end. It's someones privillage if they develope something to keep it from others, that's what anyone in business/competition does, you need an edge to stay above.
At the end of the day you want 460rwhp you go get the package and drive away.
If they sell it as a package deal then you get the package.
It would be nice to know the specs, but it doesn't make an once of difference in the end. It's someones privillage if they develope something to keep it from others, that's what anyone in business/competition does, you need an edge to stay above.
At the end of the day you want 460rwhp you go get the package and drive away.
02-07-2003, 08:37 AM
#89
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 1,894
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by LG Motorsports:
<strong> Normally aspirated stock cu in with stock crank (not off set ground) and stock sleeves Max overbore of .010 Stock plastic or Holly aluminum manifold</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All we needed to know is the rules. Thanks LOU. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Paul
<strong> Normally aspirated stock cu in with stock crank (not off set ground) and stock sleeves Max overbore of .010 Stock plastic or Holly aluminum manifold</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All we needed to know is the rules. Thanks LOU. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Paul
02-07-2003, 10:52 AM
#90
TECH Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: At the office
Posts: 3,015
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) Hey PSJ, did ya misplace that padlock somewhere? <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />
I like this thread personally because it seems we now have 2 vendors willing to attempt to push the bar even higher.
I like this thread personally because it seems we now have 2 vendors willing to attempt to push the bar even higher.
02-07-2003, 11:03 AM
#91
LS1Tech Co-Founder
iTrader: (34)
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) Lock is on active standby.
Lou and Paul are adults, if either one becomes too uncomfortable I can lock the thread but I'm sure everyone can try to be civil and still make their points.
Lou and Paul are adults, if either one becomes too uncomfortable I can lock the thread but I'm sure everyone can try to be civil and still make their points.
02-07-2003, 03:32 PM
#92
On The Tree
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: in the air of course!
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) RIGHT! they lend credibility!!! TO THE TUNER THAT STOLE THEM TOO!!! <img border="0" alt="[shoot]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_guns.gif" />
02-07-2003, 03:36 PM
#93
Teching In
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) Hey Lou -
Stop typing and go make my headers!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Stop typing and go make my headers!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />
02-07-2003, 06:25 PM
#94
On The Tree
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SSDude:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by v8 ute:
<strong> How is knowing the specs of the cam or anything else going to change anything?
If they sell it as a package deal then you get the package.
It would be nice to know the specs, but it doesn't make an once of difference in the end. It's someones privillage if they develope something to keep it from others, that's what anyone in business/competition does, you need an edge to stay above.
At the end of the day you want 460rwhp you go get the package and drive away. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What you are saying is that we should simply act like childern, say nothing, and trust the sponsor. I would NEVER buy anything from a sponsor who did not list information. Some people lie!!!! Listing the specs will only lend credibility to a sponsor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No I'm not saying act like children.
When you purchase a product whether it be a Head cam package or the latest bathroom cleaner they have to live up to their promiss and by knowing the secret ingredient(s) in their product doesn't help the end user any (just makes them and their competitor more informed).
So when you goto purchase a product find out if it suits your end use (in this case performance, driveability, longetivity, economy, type of fuel used etc) and get some gaurantees then make your purchase.
If they told you the specs of their internals how would that make a difference in saying yes I'll get product "A" not product "B", unless you were racing in a limited class.
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by v8 ute:
<strong> How is knowing the specs of the cam or anything else going to change anything?
If they sell it as a package deal then you get the package.
It would be nice to know the specs, but it doesn't make an once of difference in the end. It's someones privillage if they develope something to keep it from others, that's what anyone in business/competition does, you need an edge to stay above.
At the end of the day you want 460rwhp you go get the package and drive away. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What you are saying is that we should simply act like childern, say nothing, and trust the sponsor. I would NEVER buy anything from a sponsor who did not list information. Some people lie!!!! Listing the specs will only lend credibility to a sponsor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No I'm not saying act like children.
When you purchase a product whether it be a Head cam package or the latest bathroom cleaner they have to live up to their promiss and by knowing the secret ingredient(s) in their product doesn't help the end user any (just makes them and their competitor more informed).
So when you goto purchase a product find out if it suits your end use (in this case performance, driveability, longetivity, economy, type of fuel used etc) and get some gaurantees then make your purchase.
If they told you the specs of their internals how would that make a difference in saying yes I'll get product "A" not product "B", unless you were racing in a limited class.
02-07-2003, 07:16 PM
#95
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What you are saying is that we should simply act like childern, say nothing, and trust the sponsor. I would NEVER buy anything from a sponsor who did not list information. Some people lie!!!! Listing the specs will only lend credibility to a sponsor.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The shops being mentioned here have more than proven their solid reputations when it comes to LS1 development and racing. These aren't just some fly-by-night brand new kids on the block that are just throwing out hype. I doubt you will find many unsatisfied customers from any of these shops with their packages.
Those of you that think keeping cam specs a secret is unacceptable, welcome to the world of competitive performance engine building and try to learn to get over it. "Top Secret" specs have been around far longer than LS1s.
Thunder vs LG? Why wait for the Southern Shootout? Don't forget about the Spring Break Shootout on March 9th! Thunder is a sponsor, and LG is in Texas. You have 1 month <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
-Tony
Those of you that think keeping cam specs a secret is unacceptable, welcome to the world of competitive performance engine building and try to learn to get over it. "Top Secret" specs have been around far longer than LS1s.
Thunder vs LG? Why wait for the Southern Shootout? Don't forget about the Spring Break Shootout on March 9th! Thunder is a sponsor, and LG is in Texas. You have 1 month <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
-Tony
02-07-2003, 07:58 PM
#96
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Hey Lou -
Stop typing and go make my headers!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes I want too see the LPE magnacharger running LG longtubes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[burn out]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_burnout.gif" />
Stop typing and go make my headers!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes I want too see the LPE magnacharger running LG longtubes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[burn out]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_burnout.gif" />
02-07-2003, 07:59 PM
#97
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Hey Lou -
Stop typing and go make my headers!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes I want to see the LPE magnacharger running LG longtubes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[burn out]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_burnout.gif" />
Stop typing and go make my headers!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes I want to see the LPE magnacharger running LG longtubes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[burn out]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_burnout.gif" />
02-07-2003, 09:15 PM
#98
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by v8 ute:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SSDude:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by v8 ute:
<strong> How is knowing the specs of the cam or anything else going to change anything?
If they sell it as a package deal then you get the package.
It would be nice to know the specs, but it doesn't make an once of difference in the end. It's someones privillage if they develope something to keep it from others, that's what anyone in business/competition does, you need an edge to stay above.
At the end of the day you want 460rwhp you go get the package and drive away. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What you are saying is that we should simply act like childern, say nothing, and trust the sponsor. I would NEVER buy anything from a sponsor who did not list information. Some people lie!!!! Listing the specs will only lend credibility to a sponsor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No I'm not saying act like children.
When you purchase a product whether it be a Head cam package or the latest bathroom cleaner they have to live up to their promiss and by knowing the secret ingredient(s) in their product doesn't help the end user any (just makes them and their competitor more informed).
So when you goto purchase a product find out if it suits your end use (in this case performance, driveability, longetivity, economy, type of fuel used etc) and get some gaurantees then make your purchase.
If they told you the specs of their internals how would that make a difference in saying yes I'll get product "A" not product "B", unless you were racing in a limited class. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">When I buy a product, I ALWAYS look at the ingredients. DON'T YOU. It could be poision. <img border="0" alt="[barf]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" />
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SSDude:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by v8 ute:
<strong> How is knowing the specs of the cam or anything else going to change anything?
If they sell it as a package deal then you get the package.
It would be nice to know the specs, but it doesn't make an once of difference in the end. It's someones privillage if they develope something to keep it from others, that's what anyone in business/competition does, you need an edge to stay above.
At the end of the day you want 460rwhp you go get the package and drive away. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What you are saying is that we should simply act like childern, say nothing, and trust the sponsor. I would NEVER buy anything from a sponsor who did not list information. Some people lie!!!! Listing the specs will only lend credibility to a sponsor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No I'm not saying act like children.
When you purchase a product whether it be a Head cam package or the latest bathroom cleaner they have to live up to their promiss and by knowing the secret ingredient(s) in their product doesn't help the end user any (just makes them and their competitor more informed).
So when you goto purchase a product find out if it suits your end use (in this case performance, driveability, longetivity, economy, type of fuel used etc) and get some gaurantees then make your purchase.
If they told you the specs of their internals how would that make a difference in saying yes I'll get product "A" not product "B", unless you were racing in a limited class. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">When I buy a product, I ALWAYS look at the ingredients. DON'T YOU. It could be poision. <img border="0" alt="[barf]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" />
02-07-2003, 09:15 PM
#99
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by v8 ute:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SSDude:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by v8 ute:
<strong> How is knowing the specs of the cam or anything else going to change anything?
If they sell it as a package deal then you get the package.
It would be nice to know the specs, but it doesn't make an once of difference in the end. It's someones privillage if they develope something to keep it from others, that's what anyone in business/competition does, you need an edge to stay above.
At the end of the day you want 460rwhp you go get the package and drive away. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What you are saying is that we should simply act like childern, say nothing, and trust the sponsor. I would NEVER buy anything from a sponsor who did not list information. Some people lie!!!! Listing the specs will only lend credibility to a sponsor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No I'm not saying act like children.
When you purchase a product whether it be a Head cam package or the latest bathroom cleaner they have to live up to their promiss and by knowing the secret ingredient(s) in their product doesn't help the end user any (just makes them and their competitor more informed).
So when you goto purchase a product find out if it suits your end use (in this case performance, driveability, longetivity, economy, type of fuel used etc) and get some gaurantees then make your purchase.
If they told you the specs of their internals how would that make a difference in saying yes I'll get product "A" not product "B", unless you were racing in a limited class. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">When I buy a product, I ALWAYS look at the ingredients. DON'T YOU. It could be poision. <img border="0" alt="[barf]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" />
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SSDude:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by v8 ute:
<strong> How is knowing the specs of the cam or anything else going to change anything?
If they sell it as a package deal then you get the package.
It would be nice to know the specs, but it doesn't make an once of difference in the end. It's someones privillage if they develope something to keep it from others, that's what anyone in business/competition does, you need an edge to stay above.
At the end of the day you want 460rwhp you go get the package and drive away. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What you are saying is that we should simply act like childern, say nothing, and trust the sponsor. I would NEVER buy anything from a sponsor who did not list information. Some people lie!!!! Listing the specs will only lend credibility to a sponsor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No I'm not saying act like children.
When you purchase a product whether it be a Head cam package or the latest bathroom cleaner they have to live up to their promiss and by knowing the secret ingredient(s) in their product doesn't help the end user any (just makes them and their competitor more informed).
So when you goto purchase a product find out if it suits your end use (in this case performance, driveability, longetivity, economy, type of fuel used etc) and get some gaurantees then make your purchase.
If they told you the specs of their internals how would that make a difference in saying yes I'll get product "A" not product "B", unless you were racing in a limited class. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">When I buy a product, I ALWAYS look at the ingredients. DON'T YOU. It could be poision. <img border="0" alt="[barf]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" />
02-07-2003, 09:37 PM
#100
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dallas-freakin'-Texas
Posts: 716
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Huge heads/cam claims by sponsors (Discussion please) </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nine Ball:
<strong>Those of you that think keeping cam specs a secret is unacceptable, welcome to the world of competitive performance engine building and try to learn to get over it. "Top Secret" specs have been around far longer than LS1s.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No doubt. Try asking an NHRA super stock racer what his cam specs are. Try asking Pat Musi what his specs are. Or Sonny Leonard. Or Hans Feustel. Or Reher-Morison. Or any of the crew members on a Winston Cup team. Or any of the crew members on an NHRA Pro Stock team. You get the idea. While you're at it, tell 'em that you want a full flow sheet on their heads, too; just don't get too mad when they tell you to go, ahhhhh, fornicate with yourself.
You may reason that those situations are different, because those folks make their living based on whether they win races or not. How do you think that the folks at LGM feed their families?? They aren't in business to act as a charity for those of us that don't have the cash (or inclination) to drop off our cars and simply say, "Do it."
Think of it this way... let's say that you're a programmer working for IBM and your team produces an operating system that is superior to the latest iteration of Windows in every way. It's faster, it takes up less HD space, it makes more efficient use of memory, etc... it is just a flat-out better product. Are you going to go on the 'net and tell the whole world how you did it, or are you just going to market the hell out of it?? Maybe setup a couple of demos for people to check out, maybe publish some test results showing how quickly your OS can complete certain tasks??
On the other hand, we have an operating system available right now that is open-source; it is arguably even a better product than Windows. Anyone can get ahold of it for next to nothing, and can distribute it at will. It's called Linux, and VERY few people make their living writing innovative code for it. Why?? Because no one is willing to pay for something that they can duplicate themselves for less money.
I know that's kind of a tangent, but try to see how it relates to the current situation of certain "horsepower developers" not divulging all of the tricks that lead to a certain result.
<strong>Those of you that think keeping cam specs a secret is unacceptable, welcome to the world of competitive performance engine building and try to learn to get over it. "Top Secret" specs have been around far longer than LS1s.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No doubt. Try asking an NHRA super stock racer what his cam specs are. Try asking Pat Musi what his specs are. Or Sonny Leonard. Or Hans Feustel. Or Reher-Morison. Or any of the crew members on a Winston Cup team. Or any of the crew members on an NHRA Pro Stock team. You get the idea. While you're at it, tell 'em that you want a full flow sheet on their heads, too; just don't get too mad when they tell you to go, ahhhhh, fornicate with yourself.
You may reason that those situations are different, because those folks make their living based on whether they win races or not. How do you think that the folks at LGM feed their families?? They aren't in business to act as a charity for those of us that don't have the cash (or inclination) to drop off our cars and simply say, "Do it."
Think of it this way... let's say that you're a programmer working for IBM and your team produces an operating system that is superior to the latest iteration of Windows in every way. It's faster, it takes up less HD space, it makes more efficient use of memory, etc... it is just a flat-out better product. Are you going to go on the 'net and tell the whole world how you did it, or are you just going to market the hell out of it?? Maybe setup a couple of demos for people to check out, maybe publish some test results showing how quickly your OS can complete certain tasks??
On the other hand, we have an operating system available right now that is open-source; it is arguably even a better product than Windows. Anyone can get ahold of it for next to nothing, and can distribute it at will. It's called Linux, and VERY few people make their living writing innovative code for it. Why?? Because no one is willing to pay for something that they can duplicate themselves for less money.
I know that's kind of a tangent, but try to see how it relates to the current situation of certain "horsepower developers" not divulging all of the tricks that lead to a certain result.