DAVESS02

iTrader: (30)

Actually you can still buy offset buttons to advance or retard a stock set. Cheaper than a multi keyed chain set.

For those of us who spent or "wasted" time degreeing, its most likely that we've experienced failures from previous builds due to not double checking things. Really, the time to check with a degree wheel is minimal. I've had my share of brand new parts break, be incorrect/wrong app, and flawed. Thankfully for most of us, cams are something machined with enough precision that we dont need to worry too much about them. Take that same attitude and apply it to a new block or a fresh 9" axle housing and you'll have trouble. At any rate, better safe then sorry.

98mysticZ

iTrader: (11)

dot to dot here

BuBbABFP

iTrader: (3)

+1 Same here.

rocksws6

iTrader: (4)

If I had the heads off I would have degreed it but I didn't so I just lined up the dots. When I swap heads I will make sure and degree it though.

oldmanwinter

What am I missing? What is the difference if the heads are on or off? Is it because the pushrods want to stay up in the trays?

voda1

iTrader: (4)

Finding and setting top dead center.

oldmanwinter

You can use a piston stop in the spark plug hole to find TDC

robertbartsch

Will the $900 grand machine be run by a machinest who earns 10 bucks an hour? If yes, he is probably human and can mess up.

Aftermarket parts have a poor reputation for quality for a reason; they often SUK.

Anyway, I know a certain well known cam manufacteror who also makes behive springs that have had numerous failures over the years.

Ronald Reagon said: Trust but verify!

brokenfly

comp should have spent 900k on a spring checker(oh,wait that was my engine)...at least i will get another chance to degree my comp cam again...

NassyVette

iTrader: (22)

People don't degree cams because it takes more effort and understanding of how an engine works. If there was a sticky that detailed the procedure, I'm sure many more would begin to degree their cams. JMHO

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Id say time, effort, and cost of tools as the main cons. And not everybody takes off their heads for a cam swap.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

I have never tried that, but, interesting... I would think it is just easier to have the heads off so you can use a run out gauge to figure it out.

ChrisH821

There is a sticky that details degreeing. https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/327734-cam-guide.html post #10 (Thanks jrp)

That being said... long ago, I went dot to dot on my little cam. :-|

Lickeyman

iTrader: (1)

IMO you are both right.

Everybody gets put off when they realize that they can dot to dot it or spend almost as much on a part that they will seldom use unless they race or swap cams often.

Plus that the valve events are one of the most complicated things when in comes to the internal combustion engine.

So if you are the average joe with just enough money to even mod why learn?

We have a sticky to learn valve events but IMO we need a sticky with a how to degree a cam. (Alot of people won't look though myself included probably want to retitle cam guide to something else or break into into two threads)

Bill Bowling

iTrader: (6)

Here is one on Crane's Web site. It was too long to copy and paste.
Below is part of it.
Bill

4/00 1 803
CAUTION: READ INSTRUCTIONS CAREFULLY BEFORE STARTING PROCEDURE
INTRODUCTION
Talk to any cam grinder, engine builder, or racer and you’ll
find overwhelming agreement that “degreeing-in” a
camshaft is a vital step along the route to optimum engine
performance. At first that may seem strange because
“degreeing-in” a cam pertains to checking the accuracy with
which it was manufactured.
Actually, by degreeing-in a camshaft, you’re insuring that
valve opening and closing events are in accordance with
specifications, regardless of the cause. Actual valve opening
and closing events are influenced not only by accuracy with
which a cam was ground, but also timing chain stretch, keyway
position in the crankshaft, crank timing sprocket, and
dowel pin hole position in the cam sprocket also play a
major role.
Crane Cams’ Tune-A-Cam Kit (Pt. No. 99030-1) contains
everything needed to degree-in a cam: Degree wheel; pointer;
dial indicator; positive piston stop; checking valve
springs; plus a unique dial indicator mounting base that
screws into a valve cover retaining bolt hole. This allows you
to degree-in the cam with the heads installed, or off the
engine. The mounting base is the key to Tune-A-Cam’s ease
of use, as the dial indicator is easily positioned for proper
alignment. Minor adjustments are all that is required for
optimal geometry between the dial indicator and the
pushrod. This makes for consistent and more accurate cam
checking, and pays off with improved performance.
WHY DEGREE-IN YOUR CAM
The purpose of degreeing a cam is to insure that the cam is
phased correctly with the crankshaft, per the cam manufacturers’
specifications. Some factors that may cause improper
phasing are:
1. Cam or crank gears are incorrectly marked.
2. Keyways are out of position on gears.
3. Keyway in the crankshaft is misindexed.
4. Cam dowel pin or keyway is misindexed.
It is the exception, rather than the rule, that a cam may be
out of phase, but this should be established to insure an
accurate performance baseline or point of tune.
EQUIPMENT NEEDED
There are four essential pieces of equipment needed to
properly check a cam: (1) An accurate Degree Wheel for the
crankshaft. (2) A rigid pointer that can be attached firmly to
the engine and indicate points on the Degree Wheel. (3) A
Dial Indicator to accurately measure cam lift. (4) A Top Dead
Center Piston Stop. You will find each of these pieces of
equipment supplied in your Tune-A-Cam-Kit.
The supplied Degree Wheel is a metal plate with its outer
circumference divided and marked into 360 degrees. This is
attached to the snout of the crankshaft, so the wheel can be
rotated to adjust its reading in relation to crank
angle/degree. The larger the wheel diameter, the more
accurately you can read it, since there will be a greater distance
between the degree points.
Tune-A-Cam Kit
Degreeing a Camshaft...
the Easy Way.
For more information, see www.cranecams.com
CRANE CAMS, INC. 530 Fentress Blvd., Daytona Beach, FL 32114
www.cranecams.com Tech Line: (386) 258-6174 Fax: (386) 258-6167
4/00 2 803
BEGINNING TO DEGREE YOUR CAM
1. Be sure that the timing set is installed with the cam
and crank gear aligned properly per the manufacturer’s
specifications.
2. Remove the rocker arms.
MOUNTING THE DEGREE WHEEL
1. Attach the degree wheel (using the supplied aluminum
bushings if necessary to center the degree
wheel) to the crank snout or balancer. In our example,
we use the crank snout. (Figure 1)
2. Attach the pointer from your kit firmly to the engine
block. (Figure 1)
FINDING TOP DEAD CENTER (TDC)
1. Rotate the crankshaft until you get number one piston
in approximate TDC position. Next, adjust your
pointer to the zero TDC position on the degree
wheel. (Figure 1)
2. It is essential at this point that you have some means
of rotating the crank that will not interfere with the
degree wheel. The crank can be rotated from either
the front or the flywheel end. The greater the leverage,
the smoother you can rotate the crank for timing
checks. (Do not use the starter for turning the
engine while degreeing).

kenSS

iTrader: (1)

i degree cams everday and i've seen already top notch cam grinders mess up there cams. i always degree the cam, plus you can set the power band in your motor that way also. just my .02 cents.

NassyVette

iTrader: (22)

Another reason why people avoid degreeing cams is that comp does't offer a kit made for LS1's. Not only do you have to buy the tools and research the process, you then have to have a metric dial indicator mounting post fabricated. You'd think comp would get with the program by now...LS1's are already over a decade old, yet their degree kits are all geared specifically towards SBC engines...as well as the instructions.

Bill Bowling

iTrader: (6)

I agree. I just used the clay method. Cost me $2.00 for enough clay to last forever.

Bill

SOMbitch

iTrader: (8)

You didn't degree your cam with clay, you just checked PTV

s346k

iTrader: (4)

this is funny. you gained .01 clearance and all of a sudden you can sleep easily? haha. go find a micrometer and mark .01 of an inch, the ball on your ball point pen is too fat to even do that much.

both methods (dot to dot and degreeing) have their places. who in their right mind would degree a 210/218 .551 lift cam in a stock longblock ls1? i'm guessing a few of you would (or claim you would haha ). that would simply be wasted time. if the cam is close enough to merit checking ptv - you need to pull the heads and flycut or replace the pistons - period.

it would be easy to say this is yet another situation that calls for use of common sense, but we all know how **** like that ends up...