pushrod length
#1
pushrod length
Here is what I'm running:
1)Dart Pro1 205 heads (stock/unmilled)
2)LS2 head gaskets (.051 thickness)
3)Comp Cams 228/230 .571/.573 112
I used the Comp Cams pushrod length checker and determined that my zero lash length is 7.33125. With a .08 preload that puts me at 7.41125 (should I order this special length ). Does this sound right? I would think with a larger cam I would have a smaller base circle which would require a longer pushrod.
What is your setup and what size pushrod length do you run.
Also what pushrods do you recommend? Comp cams?
1)Dart Pro1 205 heads (stock/unmilled)
2)LS2 head gaskets (.051 thickness)
3)Comp Cams 228/230 .571/.573 112
I used the Comp Cams pushrod length checker and determined that my zero lash length is 7.33125. With a .08 preload that puts me at 7.41125 (should I order this special length ). Does this sound right? I would think with a larger cam I would have a smaller base circle which would require a longer pushrod.
What is your setup and what size pushrod length do you run.
Also what pushrods do you recommend? Comp cams?
#2
Smith Bros. Pushrods - http://www.pushrods.net
581 Series: 5/16", .083" wall one piece 4130 chromemoly.
581R Series: 5/16", .083" wall one piece 4130 chromemoly, .040 oil restrictor.
Pushrods generally come in .050" increments, so it is better to go a bit long than short. When determining final pushrod length, round up unless it is less than .015” short.
Use the 581 series pushrods or 581R if you want to restrict oil to the top end. The restricted pushrods are commonly used in open track and road racing environments with no ill effects.
581 Series: 5/16", .083" wall one piece 4130 chromemoly.
581R Series: 5/16", .083" wall one piece 4130 chromemoly, .040 oil restrictor.
Pushrods generally come in .050" increments, so it is better to go a bit long than short. When determining final pushrod length, round up unless it is less than .015” short.
Use the 581 series pushrods or 581R if you want to restrict oil to the top end. The restricted pushrods are commonly used in open track and road racing environments with no ill effects.
#7
The stock lifters are pretty forgiving, I have run them as deep as 0.125, which is where Vinci sets them by their procedure for the Crane rockers. I wouldn't get real hung up on hitting the target exactly, but closer to 0.100" may make for a quieter motor.
Trending Topics
#8
Ok, I marked the checker tool so I have a better idea of where I'm at. It looks like 10.5 turns exactly is zero lash ((10.5 * .05) + 6.8) = 7.325. If I go with a .08 preload that gives me (7.325 + .08) = 7.405, if I go with a .1 preload that gives me (7.35 + .1) = 7.425.
I'm a bit suprised that with a larger cam I'm at the stock pushrod length. Does that sound suspicious to anyone? Of course there are more variables at play here (heads and gasket).
Correct me if I'm wrong.
1)Too little preload = noisy valve train, premature valvetrain wear
2)Too much preload = quite valve train, lower manifold vacuum, higher sensitivity to valve float.
Given this information what to you guys recommend. I don't want the car sounding like a sewing machine.
So should I go with 7.4s or 7.425s?
Also, I'm using Comp Cams High Energy OEM style lifters
I'm a bit suprised that with a larger cam I'm at the stock pushrod length. Does that sound suspicious to anyone? Of course there are more variables at play here (heads and gasket).
Correct me if I'm wrong.
1)Too little preload = noisy valve train, premature valvetrain wear
2)Too much preload = quite valve train, lower manifold vacuum, higher sensitivity to valve float.
Given this information what to you guys recommend. I don't want the car sounding like a sewing machine.
So should I go with 7.4s or 7.425s?
Also, I'm using Comp Cams High Energy OEM style lifters
#9
Check this link, it suggests that lifter preload should be between .020" and .060"
https://ls1tech.com/forums/advanced-engineering-tech/781401-hydraulic-lifter-operation-preload-technical.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/advanced-engineering-tech/781401-hydraulic-lifter-operation-preload-technical.html
#10
Here's some food for thought:
Vinci High Performance on lifter preload:
Katech on lifter preload:
I followed Katech's recommendation since I installed stock LS7 replacement lifters and set preload at .084" or 2 full turns on Crane roller rockers.
Vinci High Performance on lifter preload:
Code:
LS1/LS6 Engines: Lifter Preload And Its Affect On Valve Spring Life! Chevrolet's LS1/LS6 engine family has gained wide usage in most all 2000 to present GM light duty trucks, as well as the Corvettes and Camaro/Firebirds. Some aftermarket manufacturers are recommending setting the hydraulic valve lifter preload at .004-.010" (hot) for maximum performance applications. Many tuners and enthusiasts are not paying attention to the (hot) requirement for this lifter preload. This little bit of negligence is wreaking havoc with all LS1/LS6 valve springs. Two problems exist. First, trying to set preload on a street driven LS1/LS6 with the engine hot is next to impossible. The engine will cool down before you can get the coil packs and the valve covers off. Second, the automotive engines feature aluminum block and heads, and the trucks feature iron blocks with aluminum heads. The aluminum engine castings expand more than twice as fast as the steel valve train components. If a tuner or enthusiast sets the lifter preload at .004-.010" with the engine cool, by the time the engine comes up to operating temperature, there will actually be .002-.008" of valve lash in the valvetrain. The hydraulic roller valvetrain has no clearance ramp to take up this lash and, as a result, the lash causes a hammering action to take place in the valvetrain. This has a devastating affect on spring life and strength. In addition, it creates a great deal of noise that causes the knock sensor to retard timing (unless the knock sensor is disabled), resulting in a loss of power and higher than normal engine temperatures. Lifter preload settings of .004-.010" have been recommended for years (by many aftermarket cam companies including Crane) for maximum effort applications with flat tappet hydraulic valvetrains, but extensive testing at Crane Cams R&D Department has proven conclusively that hydraulic roller lifter valvetrains operate best with .050-.080" of lifter preload. These is no sacrifice of low-end power, and the power holds on beyond the power peak much more noticeably. We have expressed this in previous newsletters, and several magazine editors and independent tuners have corroborated our findings. It is our opinion that improper (inadequate) lifter preload is one of the major causes of valve spring failure (regardless of manufacturer and spring design) on LS1 engines (especially because of the significant thermal expansion properties of the aluminum engine castings).
Code:
Checking Lifter Preload- From Katech 1) The only way to properly check (and know where you are in the travel) is to use a special checking lifter or completely compress a stock lifter. a) Checking lifter consists of a lifter that has been disassembled to install shims that lock the plunger at the top of travel in the lifter body. If using this method you would add length to the checking pushrod to put the final pushrods into the middle of travel of the plunger. b) Using a stock lifter, you must make certain that you have pumped all the oil out of the lifter. To do this leave it at valve full open (highest spring load) for a while with an indicator on the pushrod side of the rocker. Watch to see when the indicator stops moving (when the plunger is fully compressed in the lifter body). Once you have compressed the lifter rotate the engine to close the valve, extend your checking pushrod to full length. Using this method you will subtract length from your checking pushrod to put the final pushrods into the middle of travel of the plunger. 2) Typical plunger travel on Gen 3/4 lifters is 0.150 - 0.200 depending on the manufacturer, year, etc. We recommend 0.075-0.100" from the bottom of travel (using method 'b' described above) or 0.075 from the top of travel (using method 'a' described above). That will generally put you close to the middle of travel. While there are many different strategies for where to put the plunger, for street use we strongly suggest that near the middle of travel is the safest for durability. 3) The more precise method of checking is 'a' because you are not guessing that you got all the oil out.
#11
Check this link, it suggests that lifter preload should be between .020" and .060"
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=781401
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=781401
Last edited by vettenuts; 04-28-2008 at 06:18 PM.
#13
#14
Has anybody that checked thier pushrod requirements and tried running a .080 lifter preload found thier cam to be a little noisy? I don't want my motor to sound like a sewing machine with my new cam. According to the info above crane has determined that the optimal valve lash for roller lifters is .050-.080. I know some of you run > .080 valve lash and was just wondering why that decision was made.
#16
I think mine would be the same as yours except for your thicker gaskets. If this is the case you would have .011" less preload than I have. Mine is very quiet and based on this I would go with 7.425's. Another way to double check your measurement: from everything I have read about the dart heads, all things being equal they use the factory length pushrods (7.400). So to obtain the factory preload, compare the base circles of the cams and take into account head gasket thickness to figure your new pushrod length. And when you get it together, check the wipe patern to be sure it is on the center of the valve stem and not over to one side.
#17
I think mine would be the same as yours except for your thicker gaskets. If this is the case you would have .011" less preload than I have. Mine is very quiet and based on this I would go with 7.425's. Another way to double check your measurement: from everything I have read about the dart heads, all things being equal they use the factory length pushrods (7.400). So to obtain the factory preload, compare the base circles of the cams and take into account head gasket thickness to figure your new pushrod length. And when you get it together, check the wipe patern to be sure it is on the center of the valve stem and not over to one side.