Will wrong valves seals do this?
It could be caused by the wrong seals if the retainer was hitting the seal and causing it to bind. Or if the inner spring was stuck on the seal and causing coil bind due to the larger diameter of the stock seal. It looks like there is a fair amount of material left in the port roof. Some of the older heads I saw pictures of were half that thick where they broke off. I'm not saying it can't be a head problem, just trying to give you a few things to check to help eliminate some possibilities. I would also like to know if the heads are milled, what length pushrods, what head gaskets you're using, and if you have flycut the pistons. And I would like to see a side by side comparison pic of the heads so I can see what you mean by the port differences. They should definitely look identical.
Here's some pics of the head setup in question.
Here's the head showing how thick this new PRC head really is. This thing is crazy thick guys. But 400 miles of broken coil binding springs can cause problems.
Stock valve seal wedged into broken spring
Pic of broke spring & thickness of rocker pedestal.
Pic of broke spring & another wedged seal/seat combo.
Here's the head showing how thick this new PRC head really is. This thing is crazy thick guys. But 400 miles of broken coil binding springs can cause problems.
Stock valve seal wedged into broken spring
Pic of broke spring & thickness of rocker pedestal.
Pic of broke spring & another wedged seal/seat combo.
Basic Mathmatical Content Inside--->
The Stock seal/ Seat Combo OD is .890"
The PRC Inner Spring ID is .676"
As a result the spring was sitting on top of the seat/seal setup like this:
The spring sitting on top of the .890" seat step caused the spring to install .180" taller than the PRC seat assembly.
As a result the inner spring that was suppose to setup at 1.800" would then setup at only 1.620" The problem is the inner spring coil binds at 1.100". As a result the way you installed this spring you only gave .520" lift before coil bind.
Last time checked the MS4 was about 650" lift. Your spring was coil binding everytime the engine rotated for those 400 miles.
With these calculations the stock camshaft at .500 lift would have probably killed the spring being as it was within .020" of coil bind at that point!!
Maybe this thread should be changed to how the hell did my engine make it 400 miles with my springs coil binding over .130" every revolution.
Here's the PRC seat next to the incorrect stock seat:
The Stock seal/ Seat Combo OD is .890"
The PRC Inner Spring ID is .676"
As a result the spring was sitting on top of the seat/seal setup like this:
The spring sitting on top of the .890" seat step caused the spring to install .180" taller than the PRC seat assembly.
As a result the inner spring that was suppose to setup at 1.800" would then setup at only 1.620" The problem is the inner spring coil binds at 1.100". As a result the way you installed this spring you only gave .520" lift before coil bind.
Last time checked the MS4 was about 650" lift. Your spring was coil binding everytime the engine rotated for those 400 miles.
With these calculations the stock camshaft at .500 lift would have probably killed the spring being as it was within .020" of coil bind at that point!!
Maybe this thread should be changed to how the hell did my engine make it 400 miles with my springs coil binding over .130" every revolution.
Here's the PRC seat next to the incorrect stock seat:
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Last edited by Jason 98 TA; May 7, 2008 at 09:56 AM.
I guess we'll change subjects because you can't blame me for the failure anymore...
I don't have both heads here & all I can really see is carbon build up at the top of the port. I didn't sell you those heads so I have no idea what you got, but if you'd clean up the ports with carb cleaner maybe I can get a good look at what you have & make sure it's the same as this head.
I don't have both heads here & all I can really see is carbon build up at the top of the port. I didn't sell you those heads so I have no idea what you got, but if you'd clean up the ports with carb cleaner maybe I can get a good look at what you have & make sure it's the same as this head.
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,937
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City, Mo
I just read page 4...TSP these heads DID come from you. You replaced a set of heads that were already messed up for one of your customers. Just because I did not have my name on them doesnt mean you can claim your own shitty *** product! Tim Floerish is the guy who you sent the heads to. If you read on page 2 I explained why I have the heads on my car.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,937
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City, Mo
All I can say is IM DONE buying stuff from you TSP. If I would have known to change the seals I would have. I just think its funny, the head that looks like crap in the pic of the two is the one that broke. You should replace the head for free because it was not the same as the other. I paid for the new dual springs just get the damn things sent to me so I can be done. I have another heads/cam combo that you guys just shipped out to install for a guy this weekend. Hopefully that the last person I have buy anything from you guys.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,292
Likes: 6
From: RainbowCity,Alabama
I just read page 4...TSP these heads DID come from you. You replaced a set of heads that were already messed up for one of your customers. Just because I did not have my name on them doesnt mean you can claim your own shitty *** product! Tim Floerish is the guy who you sent the heads to. If you read on page 2 I explained why I have the heads on my car.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,292
Likes: 6
From: RainbowCity,Alabama
How do you know the heads are not the same? Clean them up, take a picture of them so everyone can what they look like. In the other pic they look close, but it's hard to tell because they are dirty.
I agree. Whoever installed the dual springs on the stock retainer is the one at fault. Not knowing the incompatibility is not an excuse to make TSP liable. Even if the heads are slightly different, if the O/P installed incorrect components, its the O/P's fault IMO.
Hey man are you sure the two heads are in fact different from each other? In your pics you sent me it looks like the one head looks different because of the carbon build up on the face of the head.
Here's the pic of the spring with 2 different seats for your inspection.
How about instead of attempting to discredit us online about issues that are clearly not our fault you just give me or Trevor a call so we can discuss this.
It's very simple we did not do the install of the spring kit, we did not sell the heads to you. However we still offered you a crazy smoking deal to replace the head that was damaged by improper use.
Now that you've found out the problem isn't in the cylinder head your going to try to claim magically the cnc machine cut 2 different ports in your cylinder heads?
Would you like to send that head over here for inspection as well? I think we'll find that your looking at carbon & the ports are both identical.
Unfortunately cnc machines don't typically rewrite the program midstream & decide to make a port or 2 different from the rest.
Here's the pic of the spring with 2 different seats for your inspection.
How about instead of attempting to discredit us online about issues that are clearly not our fault you just give me or Trevor a call so we can discuss this.
It's very simple we did not do the install of the spring kit, we did not sell the heads to you. However we still offered you a crazy smoking deal to replace the head that was damaged by improper use.
Now that you've found out the problem isn't in the cylinder head your going to try to claim magically the cnc machine cut 2 different ports in your cylinder heads?
Would you like to send that head over here for inspection as well? I think we'll find that your looking at carbon & the ports are both identical.
Unfortunately cnc machines don't typically rewrite the program midstream & decide to make a port or 2 different from the rest.
All I can say is IM DONE buying stuff from you TSP. If I would have known to change the seals I would have. I just think its funny, the head that looks like crap in the pic of the two is the one that broke. You should replace the head for free because it was not the same as the other. I paid for the new dual springs just get the damn things sent to me so I can be done. I have another heads/cam combo that you guys just shipped out to install for a guy this weekend. Hopefully that the last person I have buy anything from you guys.
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,937
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City, Mo
Waiting for Tim to chime in, he is the one who I helped out by putting my own TSP heads on his car to get it running and in return I got his brand new TSP heads that are in question. I did not buy these heads off a forum, Tim is a friend of mine who lives 20 min away from me.
Who incorrectly installed the spring kit on the heads? Would you clean the heads on the car & post more pics for us so we can compare that head to this head.
I take it very seriously when we're accused of stuff incorrectly. We work really hard to build a great product everytime!
Jason
I take it very seriously when we're accused of stuff incorrectly. We work really hard to build a great product everytime!
Jason
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Justin no need to post pics of the head you are claiming is different, it turned out I have the head your claiming is different. Here's a cleaned up pic of the head showing the ports are all identical when you can properly see them cleaned up.
your supplied pic of driver head
Sorry
your supplied pic of driver head
Sorry
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
That would be because they are my friend 
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
The set of heads Justin has is the set that TSP sent directly to me. Justin installed his older set he had bought from a friend on my car, then when the new set arrived from TSP, i gave the new ones to Justin, never went on a car or anything. This was the THIRD set they sent me because the first two sets were cracked. The first set i had installed with the 918 springs that came with them.
The first set was cracked and burned and smoked oil, this misled me to believe i had rings going out, so i bought a forged 347 from TSP, then i had the second set replaced. Then i got the third set on and went back to stock because the cracked heads had washed out the new rings on the new motor.
Then a couple weeks ago i had someone at my house who was buying the pistons from this setup, he pointed out that half of the pistons had major scarring on the skirts, and from only about 6k miles on them. He said it was an improperly built engine, the crank could've been off balance. But who knows, i'm done buying parts.
The first set was cracked and burned and smoked oil, this misled me to believe i had rings going out, so i bought a forged 347 from TSP, then i had the second set replaced. Then i got the third set on and went back to stock because the cracked heads had washed out the new rings on the new motor.
Then a couple weeks ago i had someone at my house who was buying the pistons from this setup, he pointed out that half of the pistons had major scarring on the skirts, and from only about 6k miles on them. He said it was an improperly built engine, the crank could've been off balance. But who knows, i'm done buying parts.