PRC STG2.5 5.3's, MS4, Flycutting install Q's
05-11-2008, 08:36 AM
#1
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PRC STG2.5 5.3's, MS4, Flycutting install Q's I will be installing new PRC stage 2.5's along with an MS4 this upcoming weekend and have a few questions. If anyone has done this install or something similar I am looking for any and all input please do not hesitate to chime in.
1. Car is an 01 WS6 M6, I plan on pulling the engine, trans and front k-member so I can do all the replacement and flycutting out in the open. So if anyone has any helpful hints/ how-to info on pulling the engine that would be great.
2. When I placed my order with Texas-speed I was assured that my setup would work best with a 7.400" pushrod. I find this a little hard to believe do to the fact that the heads are milled .030 and I will be running the cometic .040" gaskets. This means that my rocker mounting point is .047" closer to my cam centerline. 7.400-.047= 7.353" so wouldn't a 7.350" pushrod work better?
3. Flycutting tools.
I purchased a set of used isky flycutting tools from a member hear and want to make sure that they are the proper ones for my application. The heads valve size is 2.02 and 1.5755. The tools that I bought are as follows:
Isky 216 - 2 1/16", 2.0625" Clearance 2.062-2.02= .042"
Isky 158 - 1 5/8", 1.625" Clearance 1.625-1.575 = .050"
I think that these are the proper tools but if anyone has any extra info on this I would appreciate it.
4. Flycutting Depth.
I have searched a lot and I think I am supposed to take off about .100" on the intakes, and .080" on the exhaust. I don't know how I would check PTV without modifying an older lifter or purchasing a solid lifter? Are my numbers correct?
5. So I have everything.
So hear is what I have so far:
-PRC stage 2.5, 5.3's (very sexy looking)
-MS4
-7.400" hardened TSP pushrods
-Cometic.040" gaskets
-timing chain cover, water pump, intake manifold gaskets
-160* t-stat
-flucutting equipment listed above.
-new timing chain set
Will I be needing anything else? Any other recommendations?
Thanks everyone for reading over this post and if anyone has any input that they do not want to list please PM me!! Thanks in advance!!
Carl Thomas
CJTunes
midmetws6@yahoo.com
1. Car is an 01 WS6 M6, I plan on pulling the engine, trans and front k-member so I can do all the replacement and flycutting out in the open. So if anyone has any helpful hints/ how-to info on pulling the engine that would be great.
2. When I placed my order with Texas-speed I was assured that my setup would work best with a 7.400" pushrod. I find this a little hard to believe do to the fact that the heads are milled .030 and I will be running the cometic .040" gaskets. This means that my rocker mounting point is .047" closer to my cam centerline. 7.400-.047= 7.353" so wouldn't a 7.350" pushrod work better?
3. Flycutting tools.
I purchased a set of used isky flycutting tools from a member hear and want to make sure that they are the proper ones for my application. The heads valve size is 2.02 and 1.5755. The tools that I bought are as follows:
Isky 216 - 2 1/16", 2.0625" Clearance 2.062-2.02= .042"
Isky 158 - 1 5/8", 1.625" Clearance 1.625-1.575 = .050"
I think that these are the proper tools but if anyone has any extra info on this I would appreciate it.
4. Flycutting Depth.
I have searched a lot and I think I am supposed to take off about .100" on the intakes, and .080" on the exhaust. I don't know how I would check PTV without modifying an older lifter or purchasing a solid lifter? Are my numbers correct?
5. So I have everything.
So hear is what I have so far:
-PRC stage 2.5, 5.3's (very sexy looking)
-MS4
-7.400" hardened TSP pushrods
-Cometic.040" gaskets
-timing chain cover, water pump, intake manifold gaskets
-160* t-stat
-flucutting equipment listed above.
-new timing chain set
Will I be needing anything else? Any other recommendations?
Thanks everyone for reading over this post and if anyone has any input that they do not want to list please PM me!! Thanks in advance!!
Carl Thomas
CJTunes
midmetws6@yahoo.com
05-11-2008, 09:17 AM
#2
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (18)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
as far as the pushrod length question goes, the base circle of the MS4 is smaller than the stock cam, which will move the rocker mounting point farther away. I don't know what the difference of the base circle of the LSK lobe is compared to the stock cam. TSP may be correct in what they told you even with the milling and smaller gasket.
05-11-2008, 10:10 PM
#3
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
as far as the pushrod length question goes, the base circle of the MS4 is smaller than the stock cam, which will move the rocker mounting point farther away. I don't know what the difference of the base circle of the LSK lobe is compared to the stock cam. TSP may be correct in what they told you even with the milling and smaller gasket.
Thanks for the input, I was looking for some sort of reasoning as to why I was going with the 7.400's.
05-12-2008, 07:45 AM
#7
TECH Resident
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brookings, South Dakota
Posts: 927
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Isky cutters appear to be the correct size. If I am not mistaken you will need to have a junk head with the seats removed in order for them to seat correctly. I bought the cutters from Lindy Tool and they are a different style than the ones from Isky....I did not have to remove the seats for the cutter to seat correctly.
I would send the PR's back for a credit and pick up a push rod length checker. The one from Comp (I bought from Speedinc) is very easy to use. Once you get the measurement made, you can them call TSP back and get the right PR for your application. An adjustable PR length checker also comes in handy when checking PTVC.
As for the lifter, I used an old stock lifter modified with epoxy to make her solid. Worked like a champ and very easy to do. I have a few extras if you want a couple. To measure PTVC I used clay.
For the cuts start with the piston down in the hole about half an inch, start the cutter, and slowly bring her up. Make sure you oil the cutter and piston face. I found this to be the easier route. With the piston at TDC (for me) the cutter would lock up. I used an angle drill with a keyed chuck. Since you are pulling the engine, it should be alot easier than when I did mine in the car.
As for lifter preload... That is a function of your PR length. I am using LS7 lifters and went with .100 preload. As measured that equated to a 7.350 PR. I do not have any "sewing machine" sound.
Check your PTVC first in order to get a "ballpark" of how much you will need to cut from the pistons....if you can even get the engine to cycle through with that cam and head combo. With my old Torquer V3, she would not clear from the start on the intake side.
R/
Frat
I would send the PR's back for a credit and pick up a push rod length checker. The one from Comp (I bought from Speedinc) is very easy to use. Once you get the measurement made, you can them call TSP back and get the right PR for your application. An adjustable PR length checker also comes in handy when checking PTVC.
As for the lifter, I used an old stock lifter modified with epoxy to make her solid. Worked like a champ and very easy to do. I have a few extras if you want a couple. To measure PTVC I used clay.
For the cuts start with the piston down in the hole about half an inch, start the cutter, and slowly bring her up. Make sure you oil the cutter and piston face. I found this to be the easier route. With the piston at TDC (for me) the cutter would lock up. I used an angle drill with a keyed chuck. Since you are pulling the engine, it should be alot easier than when I did mine in the car.
As for lifter preload... That is a function of your PR length. I am using LS7 lifters and went with .100 preload. As measured that equated to a 7.350 PR. I do not have any "sewing machine" sound.
Check your PTVC first in order to get a "ballpark" of how much you will need to cut from the pistons....if you can even get the engine to cycle through with that cam and head combo. With my old Torquer V3, she would not clear from the start on the intake side.
R/
Frat
Trending Topics
05-12-2008, 07:48 AM
#8
TECH Resident
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brookings, South Dakota
Posts: 927
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh...
Are you using stock head bolts or did you pick up a set of ARP's?
Also, MAKE ABSOLUTLEY SURE you get all the gunk and coolant our of your bolt holes. I used the paper towel "tampon" method as shown on LS1howto.com and it worked like a champ. Make sure you thoroughly clean the deck surface, too.
Good luck and happy modding.
R/
Frat
Are you using stock head bolts or did you pick up a set of ARP's?
Also, MAKE ABSOLUTLEY SURE you get all the gunk and coolant our of your bolt holes. I used the paper towel "tampon" method as shown on LS1howto.com and it worked like a champ. Make sure you thoroughly clean the deck surface, too.
Good luck and happy modding.
R/
Frat
05-12-2008, 09:19 AM
#9
Uncut, that setup with a 7.400" pushrods and stock rockers will have right at .045" preload. By leaving a 7.400" in there with them cut .030", you'll be setting them up to about .075", which is good for those stock style GM lifters (GM sets them up close to .100" FYI). It will run quieter with the bit of added preload.
__________________
Largest Stocking Distributor of LS-x Engines / CHECK OUT OUR NEW WEBSITE!
COMP - FAST - PACESETTER - DIAMOND RACING - EAGLE SPECIALTY PRODUCTS - CALLIES - COMETIC GASKETS
RAM CLUTCHES - MOSER ENGINEERING - KOOK'S HEADERS - ARP - GM BOLTS AND GASKETS - MSD - NGK
POWERBOND - ASP - AND MORE!
Largest Stocking Distributor of LS-x Engines / CHECK OUT OUR NEW WEBSITE!
COMP - FAST - PACESETTER - DIAMOND RACING - EAGLE SPECIALTY PRODUCTS - CALLIES - COMETIC GASKETS
RAM CLUTCHES - MOSER ENGINEERING - KOOK'S HEADERS - ARP - GM BOLTS AND GASKETS - MSD - NGK
POWERBOND - ASP - AND MORE!
05-12-2008, 07:51 PM
#10
Uncut, that setup with a 7.400" pushrods and stock rockers will have right at .045" preload. By leaving a 7.400" in there with them cut .030", you'll be setting them up to about .075", which is good for those stock style GM lifters (GM sets them up close to .100" FYI). It will run quieter with the bit of added preload.
01 MidMet WS6 - The car made 410rwhp with an LS6 intake, through an unlocked loose converter on a stingy Mustang dyno, and just shy of 440rwhp on a DynoJet, again unlocked converter. It's got a dual exhaust and FAST 92 now. The car ran 11.3-11.4 full weight just under 120mph in good air before with 35rwhp less. I recently ran it with the new combo but on 18" regular street tires and pedalled it to a dismal 12.1 at 122.
05-12-2008, 09:00 PM
#11
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh...
Are you using stock head bolts or did you pick up a set of ARP's?
Also, MAKE ABSOLUTLEY SURE you get all the gunk and coolant our of your bolt holes. I used the paper towel "tampon" method as shown on LS1howto.com and it worked like a champ. Make sure you thoroughly clean the deck surface, too.
Good luck and happy modding.
R/
Frat
Are you using stock head bolts or did you pick up a set of ARP's?
Also, MAKE ABSOLUTLEY SURE you get all the gunk and coolant our of your bolt holes. I used the paper towel "tampon" method as shown on LS1howto.com and it worked like a champ. Make sure you thoroughly clean the deck surface, too.
Good luck and happy modding.
R/
Frat
05-12-2008, 09:03 PM
#12
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's with stock lifters. I checked both, and the LS7 lifter cups seem to sit a little higher than the older lifters.
01 MidMet WS6 - The car made 410rwhp with an LS6 intake, through an unlocked loose converter on a stingy Mustang dyno, and just shy of 440rwhp on a DynoJet, again unlocked converter. It's got a dual exhaust and FAST 92 now. The car ran 11.3-11.4 full weight just under 120mph in good air before with 35rwhp less. I recently ran it with the new combo but on 18" regular street tires and pedalled it to a dismal 12.1 at 122.
01 MidMet WS6 - The car made 410rwhp with an LS6 intake, through an unlocked loose converter on a stingy Mustang dyno, and just shy of 440rwhp on a DynoJet, again unlocked converter. It's got a dual exhaust and FAST 92 now. The car ran 11.3-11.4 full weight just under 120mph in good air before with 35rwhp less. I recently ran it with the new combo but on 18" regular street tires and pedalled it to a dismal 12.1 at 122.
Did you check lifter preload with both the ls1 and the ls7's, I was thinking about ordering the LS7's or the Caddy racing lifters tomorrow but don't want to run into any issues with pushrod length.
05-13-2008, 06:22 AM
#13
Yes, both stock and with the updated LS7 lifters. I've got the same heads and cam as you, with the heads cut down to 59cc, and using a .040" gasket. With the LS7 lifters I measured a 7.355" pushrod to obtain a .090" preload. Can't remember what the LS1 lifters were, but I do remember it requiring a longer pushrod for those.
05-13-2008, 11:24 PM
#15
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I purchased some CTSV-R lifters today along with an additional set of 7.350's for that just in case theory. I have been told that the preload spec on the Caddy racing lifters is .040-.060" so that is what I will be shooting for. Install will start friday and if all goes well I will be tuning it Sun afternoon. I will start by taking .080" with the flycutting and check PTV at that point. Also I will be starting another thread full of install info that will hopefully help someone in the future.
05-14-2008, 10:11 AM
#16
TECH Resident
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brookings, South Dakota
Posts: 927
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds good. I'll keep an eye out for that post. If you would...would you post up your final PTVC numbers after you make your cuts.
Thanks and good luck.
R/
Frat
Thanks and good luck.
R/
Frat
