Engine Builders - Listen-up
08-13-2003, 06:25 PM
#22
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Posts: 612
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Engine Builders - Listen-up Stealth- I have a set of cast iron 6.0 heads that I'd let go REALLY cheap if you go that route.
I also have some special head studs that Formulation sold here back in Feb 03.
Maybe you can email him and see if he still has a set. Besides that, I think you'll need to go to a larger dia. head stud.
I never liked using copper. I had nothing but problems when I used copper on my BBC.
I also have some special head studs that Formulation sold here back in Feb 03.
Date: Feb 12, 03
Custom H-11 Head Stud Kits Available
These are ready to go, about 6 sets have already gone out and I have about 14 sets left. These are custom made Head Studs in kit form made out of H-11 material rated at 265,000 psi T/S, for reference stock is 107,000 psi T/S(weak!) and the ARP head studs are about 190,000 psi T/S. H-11 is far superior to the ARP 8740 Chrome Moly material, in every aspect. These will work very well on boosted apps to prevent head lifting and give more clamping force. The company that is making these also makes all of Katech's C5R head studs(275,000 psi T/S) that run $1,000 a set and many many top racing teams fastener's. They use H-11 material for most Top Fuel apps and extreme power setup's and it performs great. They work with this material alot, have tested it extensively and have a special heat treat procedure for it to optimize it's performance. They come black oxide coated for corrosion resistance and are supplied with the best lube on the market. These are the best studs for the money spent at $375 shipped, e-mail me at indacalinc@attbi.com (might be changed to indacalinc@comcast.net ) if you want a set or more info, Thanks Dave
Custom H-11 Head Stud Kits Available
These are ready to go, about 6 sets have already gone out and I have about 14 sets left. These are custom made Head Studs in kit form made out of H-11 material rated at 265,000 psi T/S, for reference stock is 107,000 psi T/S(weak!) and the ARP head studs are about 190,000 psi T/S. H-11 is far superior to the ARP 8740 Chrome Moly material, in every aspect. These will work very well on boosted apps to prevent head lifting and give more clamping force. The company that is making these also makes all of Katech's C5R head studs(275,000 psi T/S) that run $1,000 a set and many many top racing teams fastener's. They use H-11 material for most Top Fuel apps and extreme power setup's and it performs great. They work with this material alot, have tested it extensively and have a special heat treat procedure for it to optimize it's performance. They come black oxide coated for corrosion resistance and are supplied with the best lube on the market. These are the best studs for the money spent at $375 shipped, e-mail me at indacalinc@attbi.com (might be changed to indacalinc@comcast.net ) if you want a set or more info, Thanks Dave
I never liked using copper. I had nothing but problems when I used copper on my BBC.
08-13-2003, 09:25 PM
#26
TECH Resident
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 868
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Engine Builders - Listen-up We spent the day working with ARE, ARP and SCE, and have decided to O-ring the block, change to a head bolt we can torque to 140 lbs. and change from a 200-500 wet shot to a 100/200 dry shot. At least we can race the car while we investigate head fasteners, iron heads, etc. I appreciate the help and many suggestions from the LS1 tech crowd. We proved we can make huge numbers but reliability suffered.
08-13-2003, 11:14 PM
#27
Teching In
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Engine Builders - Listen-up This is just a suggestion but you might try activating the nitrous at a higher rpm. Activating it below 3000 seems kind of crazy to me. What ever hp increase you are looking for from the Nitrous (Lets just say 300 hp for an example) will be the increase you will get over base power at all rpms where the nitrous is engaged.
That much hp increase at a low rpm would be an incredible cylinder pressure increase.
(300hp x 5252)/2800rpm = 562 extra ft/lbs of torque. That is pretty insane and a good reason for avoiding spraying at that type or rpm.
Thats the beauty (sort of) of nitrous. Want to make more torque just keep spraying it at lower and lower rpms. Torque just keeps skyrocketing. Those ls1's just werent designed to put up with those types of cylinder pressures.
That much hp increase at a low rpm would be an incredible cylinder pressure increase.
(300hp x 5252)/2800rpm = 562 extra ft/lbs of torque. That is pretty insane and a good reason for avoiding spraying at that type or rpm.
Thats the beauty (sort of) of nitrous. Want to make more torque just keep spraying it at lower and lower rpms. Torque just keeps skyrocketing. Those ls1's just werent designed to put up with those types of cylinder pressures.
08-13-2003, 11:17 PM
#28
Teching In
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Engine Builders - Listen-up oh yeah and if you really want to have something to brag about then make some real power naturally aspirated. Anybody can build an engine that will print big numbers with a big shot of spray, but it takes a real builder to make big NA numbers.
08-14-2003, 01:42 AM
#29
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Posts: 612
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Engine Builders - Listen-up
oh yeah and if you really want to have something to brag about then make some real power naturally aspirated. Anybody can build an engine that will print big numbers with a big shot of spray, but it takes a real builder to make big NA numbers.
Go tell ARE and Lingenfelter that...
I want the power of FI but have it streetable. Here in Denver, its hard enough to get the NA cars to run that great. Supra's eat most LS1's up here which is why I'm going turbo. Its all about how much power and how fast you really want to run. Different strokes for different folks.
08-14-2003, 02:11 AM
#30
On The Tree
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Duncanville, Texas
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Engine Builders - Listen-up
oh yeah and if you really want to have something to brag about then make some real power naturally aspirated. Anybody can build an engine that will print big numbers with a big shot of spray, but it takes a real builder to make big NA numbers.
BTW,
I am basically saying your comment does not apply to ls1/6's above 550+ RWHP. That seems like something somebody from the "old school" would say. You will never see a 1000+ HP NA LS1........sorry. The greatest couldn't do it!
08-14-2003, 07:37 AM
#31
Launching!
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Alongwayfromhome
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Engine Builders - Listen-up My project might have just died, and have to be scaled back to lower hp levels. Shoulda started with a SBC.
"Germans?"
"Let him go... he's on a roll."
At 1300hp, the ~20hp you might give up for an iron head and heat is irrelevant. People have been making iron heads and nitrous work for years.
Rob Raymer had the same problem. He (as far as I know) never really solved it because he was unwilling to switch to an iron head or get radical with the fasteners.
Where's the car and the engine? If you want to get serious, truly serious, about the aluminum heads then we can engineer a truss system (like a girdle) to stiffen the heads - but we could use a custom valve cover to do it.
It's not going to be like any valve cover you've ever seen (I'm thinking billet stainless), but I think it can be made to work. The trick now is to deepen the head section and use steel at the extremities.
I'll give you the engineering consulting for free, just to see an LS1 lay down 1000hp.
08-14-2003, 08:31 AM
#32
TECH Resident
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 868
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Engine Builders - Listen-up Pacerx, we are certainly willing to work with you on a girdle design. I'm going to Super Chevy this weekend and will ask the SBC guys about their various designs.
My project is not over, we're just going to backup, make some mods and move forward more cautiously. The first priority is to get the heads to stay down using only the blower, then we'll add small dry shots. Hell, the car has a valid license plate, smog sticker and mufflers, and makes a mean street machine!
BTW, we have also installed the TSI engine management system, that piggy-backs on the GM PCM, and are communicating with GMHTP magazine about an article on TSI and the car.
My project is not over, we're just going to backup, make some mods and move forward more cautiously. The first priority is to get the heads to stay down using only the blower, then we'll add small dry shots. Hell, the car has a valid license plate, smog sticker and mufflers, and makes a mean street machine!
BTW, we have also installed the TSI engine management system, that piggy-backs on the GM PCM, and are communicating with GMHTP magazine about an article on TSI and the car.
08-14-2003, 09:56 AM
#33
LS1Tech Co-Founder
iTrader: (34)
Re: Engine Builders - Listen-up Keep us posted.
If I can't keep the heads on my car I will investigate going to iron heads, but I only want to make around 800 crank hp this year.
If I can't keep the heads on my car I will investigate going to iron heads, but I only want to make around 800 crank hp this year.
08-14-2003, 10:00 AM
#34
TECH Resident
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 868
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Engine Builders - Listen-up PSJ,
Is anyone at this site using p/p, LQ4 iron heads on an LS1? Other than the substantial additional machining, I can't think of a good reason not to try them in our situations.
BTW, we might drill/tap the heads and install 9/16" studs.
Is anyone at this site using p/p, LQ4 iron heads on an LS1? Other than the substantial additional machining, I can't think of a good reason not to try them in our situations.
BTW, we might drill/tap the heads and install 9/16" studs.
08-14-2003, 10:06 AM
#35
TECH Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Engine Builders - Listen-up
oh yeah and if you really want to have something to brag about then make some real power naturally aspirated. Anybody can build an engine that will print big numbers with a big shot of spray, but it takes a real builder to make big NA numbers.
08-14-2003, 12:02 PM
#36
TECH Resident
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 868
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Engine Builders - Listen-up Chris ARE 360
I agree with your comment. While you can obtain worthwhile info at this site, you also must put-up with the inevitable and worthless.
I agree with your comment. While you can obtain worthwhile info at this site, you also must put-up with the inevitable and worthless.
08-14-2003, 02:07 PM
#38
Teching In
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Engine Builders - Listen-up
oh yeah and if you really want to have something to brag about then make some real power naturally aspirated. Anybody can build an engine that will print big numbers with a big shot of spray, but it takes a real builder to make big NA numbers.
BTW,
I am basically saying your comment does not apply to ls1/6's above 550+ RWHP. That seems like something somebody from the "old school" would say. You will never see a 1000+ HP NA LS1........sorry. The greatest couldn't do it!
08-14-2003, 02:18 PM
#39
Teching In
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Engine Builders - Listen-up
oh yeah and if you really want to have something to brag about then make some real power naturally aspirated. Anybody can build an engine that will print big numbers with a big shot of spray, but it takes a real builder to make big NA numbers.
THAT is the silliest thing I have ever read.
So I guess that Warren Johnson, and Greg Anderson are just chumps and any of these power adder engine builders could just dominate Pro-Stock racing if they wanted to but that it wouldnt be as much of a challenge as building turbo, or nitrous engines?
Or maybe Winston Cup engine builders are just hillbillys compared to the power adder guys too. You are probably right I think I will start building WC engines because it is so easy to make power NA.
Oh wait a minute this is the real world where the most competitive forms of Drag racing and Stock car racing in the country have to use NA engines.
08-14-2003, 02:31 PM
#40
TECH Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Engine Builders - Listen-up No what I am saying is that it is MUCH MUCH harder to get a motor like the LS1 to stay together at RWHP levels above 800 without lifting heads, distorting the block or having the whole thing come apart. ARE has several cars in the 9's all motor with one car doing it with only 382 cubic inches and relatively budget heads. (2.02/1.57 valves)