Are there any ported aftermarket LS3 heads that are worth upgrading to for an 08 LS3?
02-18-2009, 06:12 PM
#21
I spoke to Richard today at WCCH. His customer service is IMPECABLE. I sent an e-mail to WCCH, and Richard replied even on President's day, and was available for an INDEFINITE amount of time when I called him Today. In retrospect, I have e-mailed TEA since 02/09, and requested to get a response from Brian Tooley, and up to this date, no response to any of my e-mails.
02-20-2009, 07:22 PM
#22
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What were your results and the differences between what you have now and a GM style wide split cam? I haven't had a chance to load the LS3 with the Stage 3 cam in my Z yet. (the other mechanic in my shop has the lift tied up with a ricer
) But I would be very interested in comparing notes with you.I'm not with the "no brainer" aftermarket heads thing either. Mostly due to the fact that I don't have unlimited funds to dump into my project..which is also my DD. The stock, or relatively so, LS3 heads flow more than well enough for anything up to a max effort drag car. I haven't milled my heads yet because of the valve clearancing issues associated with high lift cams. That and I'm preparing a blower upgrade and will actually need to lower my CR.
02-20-2009, 08:54 PM
#23
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wcch heads rock-not because i bought a couple of sets but i have seen other cnc programs vs the wcch and lets just say..... they have tried to copy it......
(please no pm's on who it is-)
I spoke to richard a while back and i told him i was going to do some testing on some l92 head's and his one's
he was cool about it-
its just a general test with different intakes and cam's
maybe in the next month or so
he can post up the results if he wants
(please no pm's on who it is-)
I spoke to richard a while back and i told him i was going to do some testing on some l92 head's and his one's
he was cool about it-
its just a general test with different intakes and cam's
maybe in the next month or so
he can post up the results if he wants
02-20-2009, 09:12 PM
#24
What were your results and the differences between what you have now and a GM style wide split cam? I haven't had a chance to load the LS3 with the Stage 3 cam in my Z yet. (the other mechanic in my shop has the lift tied up with a ricer) But I would be very interested in comparing notes with you.
) But I would be very interested in comparing notes with you.We tried an "L92 specific" wide split cam and the car made less power-that cam ended up in the garbage.
My same cam in an M6 GTO made 485rwhp on a 6.0 bottom end and an L92 top end.
Shoot me a pm...
02-20-2009, 09:35 PM
#25
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wcch heads rock-not because i bought a couple of sets but i have seen other cnc programs vs the wcch and lets just say..... they have tried to copy it......
(please no pm's on who it is-)
I spoke to richard a while back and i told him i was going to do some testing on some l92 head's and his one's
he was cool about it-
its just a general test with different intakes and cam's
maybe in the next month or so
he can post up the results if he wants
(please no pm's on who it is-)
I spoke to richard a while back and i told him i was going to do some testing on some l92 head's and his one's
he was cool about it-
its just a general test with different intakes and cam's
maybe in the next month or so
he can post up the results if he wants
02-20-2009, 10:12 PM
#26
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I would expect a well prepared LS3 based 7liter to do just as well, if not better. If I could get these number at my altitude N/A, I may even sell my blower and call it good. lol
Advertised Duration (I/E) 294/335
Durartion @ 0.050’ 233/276
LSA 107
Lift (w/1.7) 0.595/0.595
Lift (w/1.8) 0.630/0.630
Cylinder Head 12578449
Intake Manifold 25534394
Camshaft 88958723
www.gmperformanceparts.com
Speed Corrected Torque Corrected Power
Rpm Lbs-Ft Hp
1900 327 118.1
2000 334 127.1
2100 338 135.1
2200 338 141.7
2300 349 152.9
2400 362 165.2
2500 381 181.5
2600 405 200.3
2700 429 220.6
2800 441 235.0
2900 450 248.3
3000 458 261.5
3100 451 266.0
3200 453 275.8
3300 454 285.0
3400 455 294.6
3500 463 308.3
3600 461 316.0
3700 461 324.9
3800 466 337.4
3900 476 353.2
4000 480 365.9
4100 478 373.1
4200 481 384.8
4300 489 400.1
4400 494 413.5
4500 492 421.6
4600 494 432.8
4700 495 443.2
4800 499 455.6
4900 510 476.2
5000 524 498.7
5100 533 517.8
5200 539 534.1
5300 543 548.5
5400 543 557.8
5500 544 569.3
5600 539 574.1
5700 540 585.5
5800 540 596.0
5900 534 599.9
6000 526 601.2
6100 527 611.8
6200 522 616.1
6300 518 621.8
6400 511 622.5
6500 506 626.5
6600 507 636.5
6700 499 636.1
6800 497 643.1
6900 492 645.8
7000 484 645.6
02-21-2009, 12:31 AM
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02-21-2009, 11:22 AM
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Hi, I have a 2008 Corvette LS3 MN6. I currently have Kooks 1 3/4 headers, catted 3 x 3 midpipe, Borla cat-back, and Callaway Honker CAI with a tune. The car put down 428 RWHP and 418 RWTQ SAE on a dyno jet.
When attempts were initially made to port the LS3 heads, most were only reporting around a 6 RWHP gain and even a loss in TQ in the midrange, but this was around a year ago. Recently, I have read several tuners and companies posting around 30 - 40 RWHP gains by porting the LS3 heads. Vengeance Racing and ECS posted a couple of threads with these results from TEA Stage 1 heads. Can anyone post other numbers and confirm this? If I add a cam, I want to be sure that having the heads ported will yield at least 30 - 40 RWHP and similar TQ numbers, in order to warrant the added cost of labor and porting service as well, since the initial posts about a year ago where not very promissing, and did not justify the cost, but other recent posts have me thinking and revisiting the possibility of getting my stock LS3 heads ported. I am looking for real gains, without taking into account milling the heads, and this would be used with a mild - moderate sized cam.
When attempts were initially made to port the LS3 heads, most were only reporting around a 6 RWHP gain and even a loss in TQ in the midrange, but this was around a year ago. Recently, I have read several tuners and companies posting around 30 - 40 RWHP gains by porting the LS3 heads. Vengeance Racing and ECS posted a couple of threads with these results from TEA Stage 1 heads. Can anyone post other numbers and confirm this? If I add a cam, I want to be sure that having the heads ported will yield at least 30 - 40 RWHP and similar TQ numbers, in order to warrant the added cost of labor and porting service as well, since the initial posts about a year ago where not very promissing, and did not justify the cost, but other recent posts have me thinking and revisiting the possibility of getting my stock LS3 heads ported. I am looking for real gains, without taking into account milling the heads, and this would be used with a mild - moderate sized cam.
However, if you plan on upgrading everything else fairly soon, then you might not disappoint yourself too badly with the new heads. You also have to remember that the LS3 is designed to run close to 11:1 comp with 72cc heads. Milling them is going to put you in danger of connecting a valve to a piston depending on your selected cam's lift, valve float, or if you are going to an aftermarket piston.
That said, GM pushes the performance of the LS3 to 515 flywheel with the help of thier ASA cam (which is a small cam by LS1Tech member standards). I don't see why you couldn't see those numbers or better with your setup, a cam (the 224 and MS3 or 4 seem to be popular here), and balancing your breathing capability with some small intake mods.
I seriously suggest that whoever you call, plug in thier promised power increases to the RPM range you do most of your real world driving to gauge the true value of the swap. In the end, it's your money.
02-21-2009, 02:28 PM
#29
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Within the confines of the OP; you are going to be hard pressed to get any serious increases in power versus the money you will spend on custom ported or aftermarket heads. Your LS3 heads rock straight from the box. The C5R or LS7 heads are the only better breathing stock heads you can have. And even they aren't too much better than what you have already. Again, unless you commit to all the aftermarket bolt on mods, you will not see enough of a gain with small cam and stock breathing capability for the money spent. -Especially in the RPM range you probably spend most of your driving time in.
However, if you plan on upgrading everything else fairly soon, then you might not disappoint yourself too badly with the new heads. You also have to remember that the LS3 is designed to run close to 11:1 comp with 72cc heads. Milling them is going to put you in danger of connecting a valve to a piston depending on your selected cam's lift, valve float, or if you are going to an aftermarket piston.
That said, GM pushes the performance of the LS3 to 515 flywheel with the help of thier ASA cam (which is a small cam by LS1Tech member standards). I don't see why you couldn't see those numbers or better with your setup, a cam (the 224 and MS3 or 4 seem to be popular here), and balancing your breathing capability with some small intake mods.
I seriously suggest that whoever you call, plug in thier promised power increases to the RPM range you do most of your real world driving to gauge the true value of the swap. In the end, it's your money.
However, if you plan on upgrading everything else fairly soon, then you might not disappoint yourself too badly with the new heads. You also have to remember that the LS3 is designed to run close to 11:1 comp with 72cc heads. Milling them is going to put you in danger of connecting a valve to a piston depending on your selected cam's lift, valve float, or if you are going to an aftermarket piston.
That said, GM pushes the performance of the LS3 to 515 flywheel with the help of thier ASA cam (which is a small cam by LS1Tech member standards). I don't see why you couldn't see those numbers or better with your setup, a cam (the 224 and MS3 or 4 seem to be popular here), and balancing your breathing capability with some small intake mods.
I seriously suggest that whoever you call, plug in thier promised power increases to the RPM range you do most of your real world driving to gauge the true value of the swap. In the end, it's your money.
Last edited by Brasil; 02-21-2009 at 02:42 PM.
02-21-2009, 05:47 PM
#30
Let me clarify one thing. PTV problems occur at the top of the stroke when the valves are almost closed, so peak lift has no effect. It's related to duration and overlap. Open the intake valve too early and bang, it hits the piston. Once you mill the LS3 heads (or even simply use an .040 gasket to get a nice CR bump) duration becomes limited to mild cams unless you flycut the pistons.
02-21-2009, 05:53 PM
#31
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I prefer NOT to flycut the pistons. The BIGGEST cam that I cam considering is a bullet custom billet cam 224/236 590/612 115 lsa. I may consider the same variation at 224/232. Would this fit WITHOUT fly cutting the pistons?
02-21-2009, 11:07 PM
#32
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A lot of good things to think about.
Let me clarify one thing. PTV problems occur at the top of the stroke when the valves are almost closed, so peak lift has no effect. It's related to duration and overlap. Open the intake valve too early and bang, it hits the piston. Once you mill the LS3 heads (or even simply use an .040 gasket to get a nice CR bump) duration becomes limited to mild cams unless you flycut the pistons.
Let me clarify one thing. PTV problems occur at the top of the stroke when the valves are almost closed, so peak lift has no effect. It's related to duration and overlap. Open the intake valve too early and bang, it hits the piston. Once you mill the LS3 heads (or even simply use an .040 gasket to get a nice CR bump) duration becomes limited to mild cams unless you flycut the pistons.
02-21-2009, 11:10 PM
#33
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From what I understand, it would depend on how you install the cam. That said, whoever is working on the engine will have to check the valves for clearance. The "dab of modeling clay" test always worked for me.
02-22-2009, 11:07 PM
#34
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Here are real results with the WCCH CNC cylinders heads;
Also note the current compression of the LS3 is not as high as GM has promoted. Richard and I have gone through a few rounds with this and have determined its closer to 10.6:1. Compression is up about .5 with these heads.
Same day install. This is in the April 2009 GMHT Magazine.
Howard
Also note the current compression of the LS3 is not as high as GM has promoted. Richard and I have gone through a few rounds with this and have determined its closer to 10.6:1. Compression is up about .5 with these heads.
Same day install. This is in the April 2009 GMHT Magazine.
Howard
02-23-2009, 01:28 AM
#35
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Well. Hard to argue with those numbers either. lol Whats the price on them? Is it possible to send in a set of LS3 heads for CNC porting? What would be the price on that? What cam are you using on this dyno?
02-23-2009, 05:57 AM
#36
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I would contact Richard directly at WCCH for the pricing. Yes he can use your set of heads for the work. He is usually short on castings so that would make it easier.
Its a DS250 Dyno Dynamics dyno.
Howard
Its a DS250 Dyno Dynamics dyno.
Howard
02-23-2009, 11:02 AM
#37
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Yes, I have been communicating with Richard. You can send your LS3 heads to be ported.
02-23-2009, 11:03 AM
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Howard, those gains are hard to dispute, and NO loss of torque anywhere in the RPM range. May I ask what are the specs on this cam? I am having a hard time deciding on what cam to use with my set-up.
