TVWilkes

The spring weighs 98.1 grams. The retainer weighs 10.8 grams. No, this isn't overkill for a NOS sniffing 347 spinning to 7200 rpm.

Paint_It_Black

iTrader: (1)

What tests were performed on these springs?

2000PewterZ28

Read the 1st post. It said a 20,000,000 cycle test.

Paint_It_Black

iTrader: (1)

Oh well I guess that explains everything

-Joseph-

iTrader: (12)

Mr. Black,

Other than a couple of mild setups; which would have been fine with either spring, the only comparison that comes to mind is these two differing engine dyno tests:

I was at the initial dyno test of the engine posted above with the new springs. The engine had the springs setup to the above specs (it's in one of the spring threads if not posted above, I don't feel like looking). With .7xx" lift on a solid roller type cam, with some "prone to valve-float condition" aluminum Comp Gold 1.72 Rocker arms and using some comp hydraulic tie-bar lifters set to .040" preload (7.8" pushrods): I was able to watch it spin it to 7400 cleanly a few times, the other .660" PRC springs wouldn't physically be able to do so with these particular rockers arms. I believe Jason @ TSP wanted to test worst case, none of the spring kits are really intended to end up on a .700"+ solid roller camshaft with valvefloat inducing rocker arms... I believe he went so far as to test some springs after running to compare to the test beforehand.

The only example I can give comparing it to the other springs is that with a slightly smaller .650" XFI (or whatever the high-lift lobe is called), smaller diameter valves and shorter 7.450" pushrods, I've been able to induce valvefloat conditions starting as early as 6200rpm with the .660" lift springs, and really starting to loose stability at 6500rpm ----- But only when using aluminum rocker arms, the stock rockers would pull to 7500rpm using the exact same .660" springs, as I would similarly expect the new springs to easily handle that RPM, especially so with stock rockers, if so desired.

I'm no spring manufacturer myself, but I believe the spring cycle test is an endurance test to estimate the life of the springs.

What other tests would you like me to suggest, if they have not been performed yet?

TVWilkes

There was an accelerated load loss test also performed on the springs. The accelerated load loss test is done in a couple of steps. First the springs are compressed to solid and clamped at solid for 24 hours at 350 degrees. The load loss is then measured. Then the springs are cycled at 1800RPM (3600 engine RPM) and, in this case, 0.670" deflection for 24 hours. Load loss is again measured. Then they are heated and clamped at solid again for 24 hours. The clamping at solid at high heat results in more load loss than the cycling does. It has proven itself over a couple of decades to be a very reliable indicator of relative load loss.

narcszm

I ordered these the day the day they were announced and they arrived in a white box labeled ".675" so i figured they were the right springs.
I went to install them and the spring seats don't fit over the valve guide. The seats that arrived in my spring kit also don't look like the ones in the photo above. Texas Speed is closed, but I have sent them email. Hopefully they are able to resolve it. What a buzzkill and waste of time - I am very disappointed because it will be another week before I can complete my cam swap.

njc.corp

Before i get on the bandwagon of haters- i thought this was to be a direct fit in the normal guide and spring pocket area-just had a better material and big big seat pressures...?

The way i look at it is you get what you pay for but i could also be wrong................-

narcszm

Update: I think i was trying to install the retainer as the seat.
It can easily be forgiven, though, as hese retainers weight alot. I was told that these are titanium, but given the heft, they are almost certainly stainless steel. I guess you do get what you pay for.

TVWilkes

The retainer is 6al4v titanium. As I posted above they weigh 10.8 grams each. They are no heftier than the original PRC kit.

TVWilkes

The quality of this spring kit is top notch. You can't base an opinion from this post because the customer was installing the product wrong.

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

As posted, they are titanium, be assured. Do you have a scale that measures accurately in grams? I'll be on and off the forum all weekend, let me know if you have any issues and I'll do my best to help!

narcszm

My buddy smokes alot of weed; I'm sure he has an accurate scale. I'll let you know.

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

You have all the correct parts to install the kit exactly like any other spring kit.

Your welcome to put the retainers on your buddy's weed scale if it makes you feel better. They are definately Titanium 6AL4V that is purchased & machined in the U.S. If you don't believe me, you can believe TVWilkes, he custom builds our retainers for us!

The PRC kits don't use some made in Ukraine cheapo retainer with crazy different install heights. Everything is precision built right here in the U.S. to make sure that everyone gets a good part.

The comment I guess you really do get what you pay for really irritates me because it's not always the case at all.

Just because this part costs $200 less than similar material spring kits from other companies doesn't make it any worse of a product.

Maybe if the kit cost $550 people wouldn't say that, but the truth is we dont have hundreds of employees to pay for. As a result I don't need to make $250 a set on spring kits. We try to make the best possible products for our customers & do so at a very fair price.

Black02SLPSS

iTrader: (5)

I like your way of thinking and conducting business sir. cheers

narcszm

No disrespect intended, Jason and Matt, and let it be known that I am not saying the materials are not to spec. The only reason I would weigh the parts was to know the difference in mass between the stock pieces and the new retainers. So far, my comment regarding value was not about the product necessarily, but about the experience.

The seat issue was my mistake. Dumb late-night error. However, I still cannot install the spring kit due to the following issue:

The valve seals included in the kit do not fit over the valve guide. This is an LS7 cylinder head, and it would take an inordinate amount of force to get these seals onto the guides. I checked the I.D. and they appear not the right part. If you suggest I should take a 12mm socket and hammer the valve seal on to the guide, I would not feel very comfortable doing that.

I am confident this will get resolved. I am simply frustrated because the kit should have "just worked" and it is fairly apparent that it will not be that simple.

I appreciate your responses to this issue, and I look forward to your suggestions.

-Joseph-

iTrader: (12)

Did your buddy tell you to use the Titanium spring retainer as the spring seat/locator? Make sure you remove the stock valve seal also (don't laugh, I had to fix one a customer installed spring set a few weeks ago...). The spring seat and new seal replaces the factory spring seat and seal. Stock LS7 heads are similar.

Here is some pics showing installation steps.

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

Also do not forget with a LS7 you'll have a taller install height. You need to test fit everything & measure to make sure your install height is where you want it. The typicall LS7 needs something like a .060" shim if memory serves me correctly, but that can change depending on what valve you have. I've seen some LS7 valves that companies make that require now shim, and I've seen some that needs TONS of shim to get a correct install height. Depending on your components you'll want to take time to properly setup those LS7 heads. The valves are much larger than a typical LS application so it's very important you do the install properly.

narcszm

Jon didn't mention anything to that effect when I ordered the springs. The distance from the machined valve spring pocket in the cylinder head to the top of the stock intake valve is 54.15mm (2.132")

Here are some salient dimensions in the attached images. The interference fit between the valve seal in the kit and the valve guide is simply too much. As you can see, the stock clearance is -0.09mm (-0.0035") and the viton clearance is -0.37mm (-0.0146") which is why the valve seal will not go onto the valve guide.

I know the free height of the spring is not related to the install height, but as you can see, the free height of the dual spring is dramatically shorter than the stock LS7 beehive spring. They are fully 4.35mm different, but after test fitting without the valve seal, there is certainly some seat pressure as it is installed without a shim.

1. Do I still need to shim the spring seat? If so, how much?
2. Is there a valve seal that will work with the LS7 valve guide?

narcszm

Nice one. Unfortunately, it was my own lack of attention. Thanks for the link. This is not my first valve spring swap, even though it may appear otherwise. My last set was from Texas Speed and I was very happy with the experience and didn't run into any issues. So far, it looks like i will just need a slightly larger diameter valve seal, and I will be on my way.