An Open Letter to SCAT Crankshafts
08-08-2009, 09:03 AM
#21
This is not a problem with Scat it is a problem with the secret agent 
OP....if I was bolting the flywheel on and the bolts did not fit I would have picked up the phone and found out what the correct size was. After all this was a aftermarket product going into a none standard size engine. There are many parts in a 416 that are not like the stock LS3....Scat did their part by trying to contact this guy with no known phone number and a bogus email address...This kind of flame job on a manufacturer is a irrisponsible action that the OP should never have made public on ls1tech.... Espcially over 26 bucks ..
.. I got to side with Scat on this one.
OP....if I was bolting the flywheel on and the bolts did not fit I would have picked up the phone and found out what the correct size was. After all this was a aftermarket product going into a none standard size engine. There are many parts in a 416 that are not like the stock LS3....Scat did their part by trying to contact this guy with no known phone number and a bogus email address...This kind of flame job on a manufacturer is a irrisponsible action that the OP should never have made public on ls1tech.... Espcially over 26 bucks .... I got to side with Scat on this one. 
08-08-2009, 09:05 AM
#22
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In cases when I have gotten complete engines from a builder I received a receipt from the builder, but usually not every little item that comes with it. (usually a cam card, but not much more). I myself had an engine built with a SCAT rotating assembly and didn't receive any of the paperwork that went along with the crank. (Sometimes info like this is included with the parts) The thing is that from start to finish most machine shops have the engine for a period of time and when its finally finished empty boxes that have parts in them usually find their way into the trash. Either way to say that SCAT owes him some flywheels bolts is ridiculous. I have encountered numerous times where the aftermarket has changed a thread or bolt size.
08-08-2009, 02:47 PM
#24
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Mr. Lieb,
It was not, and IS not, my intent to start a flame war with you over the internet. I am glad you are here. Information is king when building engines/working on cars, and I see, in your presence here, a great source of information. So thank you for that. And please stay.
If you felt it was necessary to try to make me look like an idiot, a "novice", in order to make yourself look good, so be it.
Thank you for the rationale behind why 7/16 - 20 bolts are required for the flywheel attachment. Correct me if I am wrong (something tells me you are not shy.......lol), but isn't there only a .003" difference between these and the metric bolts I have? By the way, I would have called SCAT if it had not been Saturday night. We were ready to install the engine and the "thread issue" stopped our project until Tuesday.
I DO feel that a couple of my points were valid, though:
-attaching a note with the crankshaft stating that 7/16 - 20 bolts are required. This would guard against frustation, or possibly even somebody crossthreading the wrong bolt and damaging the crankshaft.
-posting the same info on your website regarding the bolts required for the flexplate/flywheel.
-enclosing a key for the harmonic dampener in case the end user wanted to use it (I think this would be a classy move, and the cost very minimal).
On to other business regarding my personal info:
I do not believe in personal attacks, of ANY nature, over the internet, EVER. What I said in my "open letter" was regarding your business, your company, not YOU. I can understand, though, that since it is YOUR company, your "baby", that you might take it personally.
What you said, sir, was about ME. My "lack of a listed phone number", my "lack of a valid email address", calling me a "novice".
I do not, and have NEVER had, an unlisted telephone number. You have my full name. 2 seconds Googling me gives you my phone number.
I have changed internet service providers many times over the years. At the times I made the inquiries via the internet, the email address I provided was perfectly valid. My habit when I make an inquiry via the internet is to wait 2 or 3 days, and if I do not get a reply, call the company. That is what I did with SCAT. So, yes, initially SCAT was non-responsive within a 2-3 day period.
As far as you reimbursing me the $26.00 for the ARP flywheel bolts I could not use..............well, the package is open, so I doubt Summit would agree to let me return them. I would like to take you up on your offer. I am not a proud man. I am a practical man. The name on the receipt is not mine, though. Andy from Ohio picked up the bolts for me at Summit and I paid him when he brought them to Pittsburgh.
By the way, the engine is running, all is well.
Respectfully,
your "novice", Gregg
P.S.-to the dude who suggested I take up knitting? hell yeah, man, maybe I will. I'll try almost anything once.
P.P.S.-not trying to tell Mr. Lieb what to do here, but sometimes you can turn lemons into lemonade. This might be a great "forum" to increase sales for an already successful company.
It was not, and IS not, my intent to start a flame war with you over the internet. I am glad you are here. Information is king when building engines/working on cars, and I see, in your presence here, a great source of information. So thank you for that. And please stay.
If you felt it was necessary to try to make me look like an idiot, a "novice", in order to make yourself look good, so be it.
Thank you for the rationale behind why 7/16 - 20 bolts are required for the flywheel attachment. Correct me if I am wrong (something tells me you are not shy.......lol), but isn't there only a .003" difference between these and the metric bolts I have? By the way, I would have called SCAT if it had not been Saturday night. We were ready to install the engine and the "thread issue" stopped our project until Tuesday.
I DO feel that a couple of my points were valid, though:
-attaching a note with the crankshaft stating that 7/16 - 20 bolts are required. This would guard against frustation, or possibly even somebody crossthreading the wrong bolt and damaging the crankshaft.
-posting the same info on your website regarding the bolts required for the flexplate/flywheel.
-enclosing a key for the harmonic dampener in case the end user wanted to use it (I think this would be a classy move, and the cost very minimal).
On to other business regarding my personal info:
I do not believe in personal attacks, of ANY nature, over the internet, EVER. What I said in my "open letter" was regarding your business, your company, not YOU. I can understand, though, that since it is YOUR company, your "baby", that you might take it personally.
What you said, sir, was about ME. My "lack of a listed phone number", my "lack of a valid email address", calling me a "novice".
I do not, and have NEVER had, an unlisted telephone number. You have my full name. 2 seconds Googling me gives you my phone number.
I have changed internet service providers many times over the years. At the times I made the inquiries via the internet, the email address I provided was perfectly valid. My habit when I make an inquiry via the internet is to wait 2 or 3 days, and if I do not get a reply, call the company. That is what I did with SCAT. So, yes, initially SCAT was non-responsive within a 2-3 day period.
As far as you reimbursing me the $26.00 for the ARP flywheel bolts I could not use..............well, the package is open, so I doubt Summit would agree to let me return them. I would like to take you up on your offer. I am not a proud man. I am a practical man. The name on the receipt is not mine, though. Andy from Ohio picked up the bolts for me at Summit and I paid him when he brought them to Pittsburgh.
By the way, the engine is running, all is well.
Respectfully,
your "novice", Gregg
P.S.-to the dude who suggested I take up knitting? hell yeah, man, maybe I will. I'll try almost anything once.
P.P.S.-not trying to tell Mr. Lieb what to do here, but sometimes you can turn lemons into lemonade. This might be a great "forum" to increase sales for an already successful company.
08-09-2009, 01:06 PM
#25
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Quadman:
1)Summit will take back the package with no problem even though it is open.
2) You're a drama queen and this post was a complete waste of time and annoyance for Scat having to defend themselves over nothing. Lucky im not the mod/admin, id give you a short vacation off the site.
1)Summit will take back the package with no problem even though it is open.
2) You're a drama queen and this post was a complete waste of time and annoyance for Scat having to defend themselves over nothing. Lucky im not the mod/admin, id give you a short vacation off the site.
08-09-2009, 03:24 PM
#26
Quadman:
1)Summit will take back the package with no problem even though it is open.
2) You're a drama queen and this post was a complete waste of time and annoyance for Scat having to defend themselves over nothing. Lucky im not the mod/admin, id give you a short vacation off the site.
1)Summit will take back the package with no problem even though it is open.
2) You're a drama queen and this post was a complete waste of time and annoyance for Scat having to defend themselves over nothing. Lucky im not the mod/admin, id give you a short vacation off the site.
08-09-2009, 04:52 PM
#27
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Saturday night getting ready to drop in the engine, get a base tune on it and get it on its way to breakin and we got stopped by the only LS crank in the world threaded for old school SBC Bolts because there was no documentation or information stating that it goes against the grain of everything the LS Series of motors are.
08-10-2009, 05:05 AM
#28
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What happened to the set of bolts your engine builder used to balance your rotating assembly? The balancer & flywheel is bolted to the crank when you slap the bobweights on it and spin it. This is an issue that should have come up during the engine build, not the installation.
08-10-2009, 06:43 AM
#29
What happened to the set of bolts your engine builder used to balance your rotating assembly? The balancer & flywheel is bolted to the crank when you slap the bobweights on it and spin it. This is an issue that should have come up during the engine build, not the installation.
Would be nice to know ahead of time and not wait until the actual install that there is required hardware that's not being provided.
This would be a real PITA for any weekend warrior or a professional shop to have to stop in the middle of an install because of some damn bolts. Especially when it could be avoided by simple documetation thrown into the box with the product.
I don't really agree with the OP on the way this was went about on here but it can very frustrating with all the other issues that go with a new install to run into one that most certainly could be avoided.
08-10-2009, 06:46 AM
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Quadman:
1)Summit will take back the package with no problem even though it is open.
2) You're a drama queen and this post was a complete waste of time and annoyance for Scat having to defend themselves over nothing. Lucky im not the mod/admin, id give you a short vacation off the site.
1)Summit will take back the package with no problem even though it is open.
2) You're a drama queen and this post was a complete waste of time and annoyance for Scat having to defend themselves over nothing. Lucky im not the mod/admin, id give you a short vacation off the site.
You wanted attention, now you got it.
08-10-2009, 12:49 PM
#32
What happened to the set of bolts your engine builder used to balance your rotating assembly? The balancer & flywheel is bolted to the crank when you slap the bobweights on it and spin it. This is an issue that should have come up during the engine build, not the installation.
My questions are 1) why does SCAT continue to manufacture the cranks with the '350' flywheel bolts, instead of metric bolts, and 2) why not provide a keyway? Seems kind of odd. I know Callies and I think Eagle provide keyways and use metric threads. Not bashing SCAT, I think their billet stuff is nice, just something I'd have to remember to ask if I ever give them a call.
08-12-2009, 03:37 AM
#33
FormerVendor
I just saw this thread myself but I will be calling Mr. Lieb myself after being accused of "false statements!" That's slander and he will hear from me tomorrow personally.
Of course as soon as we realized they were running non oem threads we called SCAT! Our rep is Brian Mccullough there.
Also as to the low and almost non existent thrust walls they are very real on the old billet stuff but this problem was fixed on the new cranks.
I must be extremely lucky as I have seen quite a few of these non existent billets around Houston from the old days and told them about this myself several times while working at SAM and actually showed Tom Lieb himself at PRI!
I think I even have one at my shop right now! I can post a pic of it so Tom can see it himself! Maybe I have most of these prototype SCAT Billet cranks that were made? How did I end up with them?
The thrusts on all the new cranks SCAT is selling are totally normal and will cause no issues though.
Of course as soon as we realized they were running non oem threads we called SCAT! Our rep is Brian Mccullough there.
Also as to the low and almost non existent thrust walls they are very real on the old billet stuff but this problem was fixed on the new cranks.
I must be extremely lucky as I have seen quite a few of these non existent billets around Houston from the old days and told them about this myself several times while working at SAM and actually showed Tom Lieb himself at PRI!
I think I even have one at my shop right now! I can post a pic of it so Tom can see it himself! Maybe I have most of these prototype SCAT Billet cranks that were made? How did I end up with them?
The thrusts on all the new cranks SCAT is selling are totally normal and will cause no issues though.
08-12-2009, 03:45 AM
#34
FormerVendor
It is very unfortunate that Mr. Corsello and Mr. Koening never contacted SCAT about this dilemma. As a result, both individuals have made false statements which are only too easy to post on a blog.
We have attempted to contact Mr. Corsello via the E-mail address he has on file from his previous inquiries, but it came back as undeliverable. And because Mr. Corsello did not provide us with a phone number, it makes it difficult to contact him. We also contacted directory assistance in a further attempt to contact him, but his number is not listed.
In regards to Mr. Corsello’s post on this site, first and foremost, SCAT has been making crankshafts since 1966 (44 years), so we know what we are doing.
Second, SCAT made all of the prototype cranks for the GM when the LS engine was in it’s initial design stage (150 billet cranks to be exact). A couple of design changes were made before the engine was put into production. One was the thrust bearing. A second was the flywheel attachment. SCAT in fact, was responsible for the initial design of the LS crankshaft for GM.
After the 1st engines appeared on the market, SCAT made a handful of billet cranks (8 to be exact) for the aftermarket using a prototype smaller thrust diameter. This was long before any aftermarket forgings were available from anyone. The statements by Mr. Corsello and Mr. Koening are blatantly false. SCAT’s catalogued forged cranks have always been made to the larger thrust diameter.
When SCAT first started to make LS cranks, ARP did not make a performance aftermarket flywheel bolt for this application. The engine builders requested that we tap the flywheel flange for use of ARP ‘350’ bolts, 7/16 x 20. We have continued the practice to this day. Now ARP makes an 11mm bolt. Should we change? “Corsello” bought 11mm bolts. He intended to spend $26 on bolts. Why did he not exchange the bolts for 7/16 x 20? If you Mr. Corsello feel that this is an unreasonable question, send the new ARP bolts and receipt of purchase to SCAT and we will be happy to refund your money.
Reference to the keyway. Stock LS cranks do not have a keyway. The SCAT keyway is a standard 350 which can be found new, used, everywhere. I assumed you also have criticized the damper manufacturer who sold you a damper for an LS engine with a keyway to be used on an LS application which may or may not have a keyway. Did they furnish a key?
As far as your comment that SCAT is non-responsive. You sent us two queries, one regarding proper side clearance for rods. A second regarding how to install the rods on your crank. The rods due to the radii on the crank throw and the offset of the bearing can only go on one way. It is obvious but a reasonable question for a novice.
Again, the E-mail response by SCAT was returned as non-deliverable.
These queries were answered in a timely fashion. Most queries SCAT receives, the person furnishes a phone number. Again, you did not. As mentioned above, I personally called directory assistance, but you either do not have a phone or it is unlisted. On our dime we prefer to speak to the customer to have a complete conversation to understand the problem and to provide a complete solution. Mr. Corsello never queried SCAT regarding the content of his letter.
The internet offers unlimited access to the world however it also can be abused, as in this case. Spreading false rumors and making derogatory comments for the specific purpose of trashing a company or person should not be permitted on any site without first giving the accused an opportunity to respond.
Mr. Corsello published his letter on LS1tech.com on August 2nd. He has our E-mail. Instead of E-mailing SAT, he chose to send a copy by post which we received in the mail today. This is the rest of the story.
I welcome your phone calls. My direct line is 310-370-5501 x112, Tom Lieb, Owner.
We have attempted to contact Mr. Corsello via the E-mail address he has on file from his previous inquiries, but it came back as undeliverable. And because Mr. Corsello did not provide us with a phone number, it makes it difficult to contact him. We also contacted directory assistance in a further attempt to contact him, but his number is not listed.
In regards to Mr. Corsello’s post on this site, first and foremost, SCAT has been making crankshafts since 1966 (44 years), so we know what we are doing.
Second, SCAT made all of the prototype cranks for the GM when the LS engine was in it’s initial design stage (150 billet cranks to be exact). A couple of design changes were made before the engine was put into production. One was the thrust bearing. A second was the flywheel attachment. SCAT in fact, was responsible for the initial design of the LS crankshaft for GM.
After the 1st engines appeared on the market, SCAT made a handful of billet cranks (8 to be exact) for the aftermarket using a prototype smaller thrust diameter. This was long before any aftermarket forgings were available from anyone. The statements by Mr. Corsello and Mr. Koening are blatantly false. SCAT’s catalogued forged cranks have always been made to the larger thrust diameter.
When SCAT first started to make LS cranks, ARP did not make a performance aftermarket flywheel bolt for this application. The engine builders requested that we tap the flywheel flange for use of ARP ‘350’ bolts, 7/16 x 20. We have continued the practice to this day. Now ARP makes an 11mm bolt. Should we change? “Corsello” bought 11mm bolts. He intended to spend $26 on bolts. Why did he not exchange the bolts for 7/16 x 20? If you Mr. Corsello feel that this is an unreasonable question, send the new ARP bolts and receipt of purchase to SCAT and we will be happy to refund your money.
Reference to the keyway. Stock LS cranks do not have a keyway. The SCAT keyway is a standard 350 which can be found new, used, everywhere. I assumed you also have criticized the damper manufacturer who sold you a damper for an LS engine with a keyway to be used on an LS application which may or may not have a keyway. Did they furnish a key?
As far as your comment that SCAT is non-responsive. You sent us two queries, one regarding proper side clearance for rods. A second regarding how to install the rods on your crank. The rods due to the radii on the crank throw and the offset of the bearing can only go on one way. It is obvious but a reasonable question for a novice.
Again, the E-mail response by SCAT was returned as non-deliverable.
These queries were answered in a timely fashion. Most queries SCAT receives, the person furnishes a phone number. Again, you did not. As mentioned above, I personally called directory assistance, but you either do not have a phone or it is unlisted. On our dime we prefer to speak to the customer to have a complete conversation to understand the problem and to provide a complete solution. Mr. Corsello never queried SCAT regarding the content of his letter.
The internet offers unlimited access to the world however it also can be abused, as in this case. Spreading false rumors and making derogatory comments for the specific purpose of trashing a company or person should not be permitted on any site without first giving the accused an opportunity to respond.
Mr. Corsello published his letter on LS1tech.com on August 2nd. He has our E-mail. Instead of E-mailing SAT, he chose to send a copy by post which we received in the mail today. This is the rest of the story.
I welcome your phone calls. My direct line is 310-370-5501 x112, Tom Lieb, Owner.
08-12-2009, 07:19 AM
#35
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Ok this is some good info. Go get them Erik. I have a new SCAT crank (not billet) Do I need new standard bolts ? I'll check it out at the machine shop myself. I'm glad I read this before it was in the car. I know how it is when trying to finish a project and something like this comes up. It sucks!!!.
08-12-2009, 07:23 AM
#36
I have bought many stroker kits from Scat, any problem i had i dealt with them, not the internet-but some good will come out of this for me, as i have a stroker LS shortblock i just built sitting on the engine stand, and ck'ed it and i will need the 7/16-20 bolts, although i would have figured it out anyway
since i am running the .400 spacer and 6.0 flywheel, i will have to shop around and see if ARP bolts are avail.
to say Scat owes $26 is pretty silly though, do enough over the years you will learn things are not always rosey, you adapt and go on-try building an entire car and see what doesnt fit, lol
so thanks for the heads up on the bolts, i will pick up the correct ones in advance
since i am running the .400 spacer and 6.0 flywheel, i will have to shop around and see if ARP bolts are avail.
to say Scat owes $26 is pretty silly though, do enough over the years you will learn things are not always rosey, you adapt and go on-try building an entire car and see what doesnt fit, lol
so thanks for the heads up on the bolts, i will pick up the correct ones in advance
08-12-2009, 07:41 PM
#38
FormerVendor
Ok this is some good info. Go get them Erik. I have a new SCAT crank (not billet) Do I need new standard bolts ? I'll check it out at the machine shop myself. I'm glad I read this before it was in the car. I know how it is when trying to finish a project and something like this comes up. It sucks!!!.
08-12-2009, 09:04 PM
#39
I just saw this thread myself but I will be calling Mr. Lieb myself after being accused of "false statements!" That's slander and he will hear from me tomorrow personally.
Of course as soon as we realized they were running non oem threads we called SCAT! Our rep is Brian Mccullough there.
Also as to the low and almost non existent thrust walls they are very real on the old billet stuff but this problem was fixed on the new cranks.
I must be extremely lucky as I have seen quite a few of these non existent billets around Houston from the old days and told them about this myself several times while working at SAM and actually showed Tom Lieb himself at PRI!
I think I even have one at my shop right now! I can post a pic of it so Tom can see it himself! Maybe I have most of these prototype SCAT Billet cranks that were made? How did I end up with them?
The thrusts on all the new cranks SCAT is selling are totally normal and will cause no issues though.
Of course as soon as we realized they were running non oem threads we called SCAT! Our rep is Brian Mccullough there.
Also as to the low and almost non existent thrust walls they are very real on the old billet stuff but this problem was fixed on the new cranks.
I must be extremely lucky as I have seen quite a few of these non existent billets around Houston from the old days and told them about this myself several times while working at SAM and actually showed Tom Lieb himself at PRI!
I think I even have one at my shop right now! I can post a pic of it so Tom can see it himself! Maybe I have most of these prototype SCAT Billet cranks that were made? How did I end up with them?
The thrusts on all the new cranks SCAT is selling are totally normal and will cause no issues though.
