Shawn @ VA Speed

iTrader: (3)

I will add this to the conversation-identical parts do not equal identical engines.Parts are about 25% of the equation-machine work is the other 75%.I've rebuilt low milage engines and picked up 100+ hp usings the same exact parts.Hell i picked up 15hp with my new hone over the old one using the same honing techniques-just because the diamond stones put such a better finish on the cylinders.

gtslo88

iTrader: (1)

Ive been told that the HKE/LME/ect. motors take about 3-4 months to get your hands on. Is this true with TxSpd/SGDC as well? I just assume they always have some layin around.

Beaflag VonRathburg

iTrader: (176)

I have been thinking about this for a while and I always come up with the same points. An engine is a large investment for 99% of this community. For me knowing that my engine would be built exactly as I want it and to every detail by someone that has taken the time to talk to me about my goals and aspirationns is worth a few hundred dollars to me. You also have to think of other things such as customer service. If there is an issue down the line or you need help will you get to talk to the builder or a customer service rep who doesn't know who you are?

With that said I've never heard of any complaints about engines that have come from Erik Koenig other than getting in touch with him is difficult. If you can he is very nice and extremely knowledgeble. I had the privelage of getting to talk to him about piston design and learned a whole lot.

I do also know a ton of local people that run tsp engines. I can think of one that had issues and they were all his fault. All the rest as far as I know are running well. One is a 408 / s91 that is making massive numbers.

Busted Knuckles

Sunset Racecraft in Lubbock, TX.
They built and sold more engines and won more races across the nation last year than Reher-Morrison. The company is owned by Tracy Dennis, he runs the tightest ship of anyone I've ever met. They build TSP and Scoggin's short blocks using parts supplied by the same and build 'em to their specs. I'm fortunate enough to get to walk through their shop from time to time and it's impressive. There is no standing around shooting the breeze, these guys work hard to make sure everything is right. Most, if not all, are racers themselves.
If you'll check out what's happening in racing with big-inch big blocks, you'll see a lot of those winning races have engines with Brodix 3-Xtra and Head Hunter cylinder heads. Those are Tracy Dennis' work. These LS engines are very impressive, but a 732 inch monster will get your attention when they dyno test one. The floor under your feet shakes, brother, and it makes you want to step outside for a smoke after it's done...even if you don't smoke!

KCS

iTrader: (20)

When a company decides to build a set of engines, all with the same parts and same clearances/etc., that is a cookie cutter engine. That's how you can order a TSP engine online and with a few mouse clicks. Many, many places do this and it's not necessarily a bad thing, because the engines are built for the majority of what people use them for, and the customer can get them faster.

Other shops, like LME and HKE, talk to you about what the engine is meant for and build it to the specifications they feel will suit you best. They might even be able to recommend things that could save you money, or parts that you should use instead of an inferior piece. Basically like Jack in the Box, it's not made until you order it. It takes longer, but it's your engine, built specifically for you, based upon what you intend to use it for.

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

Keep in Mind, KCS, that we're not the only website mentioned in this thread that has the options so you can click online and buy a short-block Being able to shop online doesn't make an engine "cookie cutter" by any means.

I have customers calling in daily looking for a very specific combo that they've priced at a competitor's shop but would have to wait several weeks for. They know what components they want and what they will pay elsewhere. Many times we get the sell because we have that EXACT combo in stock, again simply due to being able to stock some of the more common/popular combos.

Drew, if we can help you spec your combo please let us know. I feel like we've given you the support you needed in the past and helped you out with your prior combos and hopefully saved you a couple bucks in the process. I'd be glad to do so again

greyghost4x4

iTrader: (10)

well said! smart man...

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

Eh, that wasn't really a valid point. It was based on an assumption that they don't put the extra time into our engines, but they do! Again, Texas Speed is the biggest source of their income for most of the year. We have a stringent spec that they build our engines to which includes all the clearances and assembly processes. They aren't throwing these together with a blind-fold on just because they aren't going into a pro-stock car. They take the time to do everything right, down to the detailed process of cam bearings install, to ensure there are no issues on their side of the build!

KCS

iTrader: (20)

I agree. I'm not ******* "cookie cutter" engines either, or those who build them. Reher Morrison and Sonny Leonard also produce "cookie cutter" engines, as well a Ilmor. I don't think it's a bad way to do business.

Hence the beauty of "cookie cutter" engines. 90% of the LS engines out there are almost EXACTLY alike as far as the shortblock components are concerned, and stocking those popular components and having "shelf engines" built allow less wait time for the customer.

On the other hand, some people don't want the same engine everyone else has. Some people really do need special consideration into building their engine for their application. Some people just might have problems with the particular company producing the "cookie cutter" engines, and would prefer to wait for another builder. I don't think there's a right/wrong way, it's just up to the customer to weigh the pro's vs. con's.

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

Gotcha! And we do offer "custom" builds and do them all the time too. We've done our share of the ultra-light weight rotating kits in them for those wanting faster revs and the ability to rev them to the moon, custom Callies Magnum cranks and throw down rods with custom pistons to match, etc. Just as soon as you build one of those guessing at what someone will want, it'll sit on the shelf for years before someone grabs it up, so we avoid that obviously

scooter k

iTrader: (19)

Email Erik at HKE or call and leave him a message telling him what time to call you. He will get back to you and does great work. I'm running one of his with a TVS2300.

mcamarols1

iTrader: (9)

When the time comes i will be giving TSP a call. I heard nothing but things about them.

racer7088

I think that Sunset does great work overall and the leakdown could easily just be some larger than normal ring gaps. I am not being sarcastic but it is entirely possible to have a lot of leak down for that reason and the engine will still run perfect. Some shops and us included at times run larger gaps than normal as so many people here at least in Texas will run NOS or may do it a little even when they initially say they won't and this is just cheap insurance.

Not saying that this was the reason for WKMCD's higher than normal leakdown but it could be. Overall I think TSP and SDPC engines are pretty nice from most I have seen and even though we are in competition with them somewhat we still all have too much work it seems and they all have helped us out tremendously. I buy all my small parts from SDPC and Brian Gruben there is my hero and I also use several of TSP's products that I find to be exceptionaly good.

PS.

BTW we are tiny compared to them and can't build as many engines as fast since 90% are weird custom deals (many too weird actually). TSP and SDPC can deliver stuff more quickly because of their volume and buying power and they are lucky to both be right around the corner from Tracy and Sunset which is also a very nice and big operation. There's a place for everyone in this business and we simply couldn't compete with these guys at volume even if we tried to!

Jontall

I read your essay "Engine Building 101" (2005). You're very knowledgeable.

WKMCD

iTrader: (2)

I really have no idea why. Just relaying my experience. Maybe Shawn at VA Speed will know more when it's pulled down.

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

You just lost all your credibility I'm kidding, of course, Brian is a good guy!

WADDISME

iTrader: (4)

I got an aluminum 402 from TSP about a year ago. I have had no issues with it and I try to track it once a month. For 30 mins every other hour, I run the crap out of it and so far - so good. I would recommend, especially before ordering!

Full-Force

iTrader: (11)

Maybe its hit or miss, but peoples cars that I have had the opportunity to get close to have not had much luck with any shortblock that has been bored/stroked. They all seem to end up failing. Some as simple as excessive blow by and or oil burning and others with spun bearings or rod knock.

Now on the other hand I have seen head/cam/sprayed stock shortblocks run forever with no issues. Go figure. I dont know if its the excessive piston speed due to the longer stroke or what, but the 402/408, etc. motors I know of are not going to see 100,000+ miles of trouble free service like their stock gm counterparts.

JMHO

The Dragon

iTrader: (6)

How fast do you think the piston speed is on the larger 7 Liter LS7 engine at 7000 rpm's?

racer7088

You are right that there are a lot of potential errors on any aftermarket rebuild versus just staying stock but done right I have not seen what you have. I have stuff running here in Houston from almost 10 years ago without the problems you are talking about and see oil burning 347s every day. The OEM stuff though is very perfected and had to pass a million tests so of course it has to work and work well. Also few things done to increase power also increase reliability unfortunately.

Of course half the engines we do right now are because of failures with the OEM parts especially in harsh environments and in power adder usuage. Then you factor in what kind of usage and duty cycle you have for an engine people are purposely making for a performance rebuild and 99% of these engines are not being treated like the OEM engines either. To give you an example we have blower engines lasting years with the right pistons and parts and yet the OEM stuff they were using failed in less than a week so it always depends.