LS3 cam choice...am I crazy?
LS3 cam choice...am I crazy? Ive been researching a lot on the subject lately and I have yet to see someone put a large cam in an LS3. Im about to order this comp LSR grind:
dur - 243/259 lift - .624/.624 on 114 or maybe their 239/255 version.
The car is an 01 camaro, 4L80 (manualy shifted), 4.30's, 26" tire, ~3200 race weight. Im going to run a Victor Jr with 4bbl throttle body, ported/milled LS3 heads(11.5:1), 1-7/8 headers, and duals. My original goal was for the car to reach 10's (stock intake, stock heads, TSP 231 LS3 cam) but now I seem to be going crazy trying to reach mid 10's N/A. A comp rep actually suggested for me to run a 251/263 .624/.624 on 112?!? Yes this will be an all out drag car but would something smaller actually be better? I know I cant be the first to try and stuff a huge cam in an LS3?!? Thanks in advance for any insight
dur - 243/259 lift - .624/.624 on 114 or maybe their 239/255 version.
The car is an 01 camaro, 4L80 (manualy shifted), 4.30's, 26" tire, ~3200 race weight. Im going to run a Victor Jr with 4bbl throttle body, ported/milled LS3 heads(11.5:1), 1-7/8 headers, and duals. My original goal was for the car to reach 10's (stock intake, stock heads, TSP 231 LS3 cam) but now I seem to be going crazy trying to reach mid 10's N/A. A comp rep actually suggested for me to run a 251/263 .624/.624 on 112?!? Yes this will be an all out drag car but would something smaller actually be better? I know I cant be the first to try and stuff a huge cam in an LS3?!? Thanks in advance for any insight
There are two reason why you don't see cams this big in LS3s.
1. They absolutely will not fit without big valve reliefs in your pistons (most people don't want the hassle of fly-cutting stock pistons).
2. The LS3 heads do not respond to excessive overlap. Running a cam this big with stock compression (even with valve reliefs) will be a turd.
1. They absolutely will not fit without big valve reliefs in your pistons (most people don't want the hassle of fly-cutting stock pistons).
2. The LS3 heads do not respond to excessive overlap. Running a cam this big with stock compression (even with valve reliefs) will be a turd.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 578
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From: REALITY
Look at maybe a 23X/23X and try to cut more weight off the car and you should be there are hella close..... make that 3200lb car 2800lbz..... But if your comp is 11.5, sounds like your heads are milled pretty aggressive so it will be hard for you not to have to flycut, period....
They have 4000lbz cars running 11's with 22X/22X cams....... If I were you and it is a drag car, I would concentrate more on taking weight off the car vs adding duration to the cam.... Its physics.... A 4000lb car thats running 11's should run faster ET's as you decrease the weight....Now lighten up the car 400-600lbs and you will see quicker ET's. in that 4000lb car....... 3400lb car now..... So you can use that info how you want when selecting your cam.....
Just use this as an example or theory(not written in stone): Take your car as it stands now: We'll use 500 rear wheel horsepower as the standard
3200LB will need around 490-500rwhp and a trap speed around 120-125mph to hit 10.5-11 range.....
now knock some weight off
2800LB will need around 490-500rwhp and trap speed around 128-135mph to hit 10-10.5 range.......
This is just a ballpark and range to give you something or a different angle to think about.
I find that alot of guys concentrate on cams or other stuff beside the complete package... When I look at ET's especially when a guy has a budget build, the car that has the best, not the most expensive combination will have the faster ET..... Combination, combination,combination..........
They have 4000lbz cars running 11's with 22X/22X cams....... If I were you and it is a drag car, I would concentrate more on taking weight off the car vs adding duration to the cam.... Its physics.... A 4000lb car thats running 11's should run faster ET's as you decrease the weight....Now lighten up the car 400-600lbs and you will see quicker ET's. in that 4000lb car....... 3400lb car now..... So you can use that info how you want when selecting your cam.....
Just use this as an example or theory(not written in stone): Take your car as it stands now: We'll use 500 rear wheel horsepower as the standard
3200LB will need around 490-500rwhp and a trap speed around 120-125mph to hit 10.5-11 range.....
now knock some weight off
2800LB will need around 490-500rwhp and trap speed around 128-135mph to hit 10-10.5 range.......
This is just a ballpark and range to give you something or a different angle to think about.
I find that alot of guys concentrate on cams or other stuff beside the complete package... When I look at ET's especially when a guy has a budget build, the car that has the best, not the most expensive combination will have the faster ET..... Combination, combination,combination..........
Last edited by bozzhawg; Aug 3, 2010 at 02:13 PM.
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 57
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From: Australia
In a 6L but 239/247 lsr 11.7 comp milled/ported heads fast lsxr 102 t/b 1 7/8 headers etc etc Flycut pistons 100thou(must do)
358rwkw's or 485hp on a conservitive dyno, and the thing drives nice but revs like a monster. Don't go such a large duration on the exhaust and a bigger lsa 114>115. Get a awesome tuner and you'll get a good result..
Go for it...........
358rwkw's or 485hp on a conservitive dyno, and the thing drives nice but revs like a monster. Don't go such a large duration on the exhaust and a bigger lsa 114>115. Get a awesome tuner and you'll get a good result..
Go for it...........
Yes I know I have to flycut the pistons, thats a given. The motor is sitting on a stand right now and I do it for a living, so no worries. My focus will be getting weight out of the car as well, once its all put together though. Im on a budget. Tubular K member, lexan, yada yada yada, which is all more expensive than the cam. It will be gutted for now with a seat, steering wheel, and a dash pad. Im just guessing it will come in at 3000ish + gas + me = 3200.
Anyway back to the cam....so none of those. You say 230\230, but I was under the impression that the LS3 doesn't like a cam like that. I thought they like a big split from intake to exaust duration. The next one down on comp's list is a 235/251 .621/.624 on 113, also LSR lobes. Then a drastic jump down to 227/243 .614/.624 on 113. Then there is TSP's 231/236 .641/.615 on 112 and my top choice at the start of this build the Vengeance 239/251 .624/.624 on 113+3.
Aussie, how much did you have to mill off to get 11.7? Im thinking it will only take .015-.02" but maybe Im wrong. Great info on the flycut, saves me from doing all that math.
Anyway back to the cam....so none of those. You say 230\230, but I was under the impression that the LS3 doesn't like a cam like that. I thought they like a big split from intake to exaust duration. The next one down on comp's list is a 235/251 .621/.624 on 113, also LSR lobes. Then a drastic jump down to 227/243 .614/.624 on 113. Then there is TSP's 231/236 .641/.615 on 112 and my top choice at the start of this build the Vengeance 239/251 .624/.624 on 113+3.
Aussie, how much did you have to mill off to get 11.7? Im thinking it will only take .015-.02" but maybe Im wrong. Great info on the flycut, saves me from doing all that math.
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With all due respect to Comp Cams, TSP has done more R&D on camshaft selection for GenIV engines. I would trust their recommendations more. The huge splits (12-16 degrees) are not necessary. The fastest L92 racers in OZ run splits in the 4-8 degree range.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 57
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From: Australia
Anyway back to the cam....so none of those. You say 230\230, but I was under the impression that the LS3 doesn't like a cam like that. I thought they like a big split from intake to exaust duration. The next one down on comp's list is a 235/251 .621/.624 on 113, also LSR lobes. Then a drastic jump down to 227/243 .614/.624 on 113. Then there is TSP's 231/236 .641/.615 on 112 and my top choice at the start of this build the Vengeance 239/251 .624/.624 on 113+3.
Aussie, how much did you have to mill off to get 11.7? Im thinking it will only take .015-.02" but maybe Im wrong. Great info on the flycut, saves me from doing all that math.
Aussie, how much did you have to mill off to get 11.7? Im thinking it will only take .015-.02" but maybe Im wrong. Great info on the flycut, saves me from doing all that math.
A popular cam in Aust is a 233/233 would you believe.
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Who might that be pat ?
That sux cuz I get comp dealer prices, hence the comp selection. Guess I need to port the heads and intake first, then get with TSP/PatG for a custom grind. But from the sounds of what you are saying the TSP 231/236 is the best off the shelf grind. Im going to slap it on the engine dyno before it goes in the car so I'll easily be able to change the cam if it doesnt do what I want it to do. Im also now thinking about doing a sheet metal intake.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 578
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From: REALITY
That sux cuz I get comp dealer prices, hence the comp selection. Guess I need to port the heads and intake first, then get with TSP/PatG for a custom grind. But from the sounds of what you are saying the TSP 231/236 is the best off the shelf grind. Im going to slap it on the engine dyno before it goes in the car so I'll easily be able to change the cam if it doesnt do what I want it to do. Im also now thinking about doing a sheet metal intake.
Its a touchy subject, I don't think any spec'r on here is going to flat out tell you that this off the shelf grind is better than the other..... If you got more money than time, hell get a couple of custom grinds and drop the mofoz in... But even then.... I stopped doing engine dynos due to the fact, I have seen too many 600HP+ engines not produce the same results on a chasis dyno and sometimes ET's.... There are too many varibles one the motor is in the car unless you got money to blow...... And your dyno is only as scrupulous as your dyno tuner..... I use dynos for tunning purposes only, and if I get a sexy HP number cool, but make sure you don't chase dynos and horsepower, because it is an expensive habit......
just my $2.00 and inflation is killing the dollar....Ha Ha
Thanks for all the wonderful insight
Here is an interesting read I just found too:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...-sourcing.html
I guess these LS3's are such mystical creatures no one has done what Im doing yet.
Here is an interesting read I just found too:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...-sourcing.html
I guess these LS3's are such mystical creatures no one has done what Im doing yet.
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Last edited by Sales2@Texas-speed; Jan 11, 2011 at 11:35 AM.
This post was so long ago, it seems people like Pat, Bozz, WKMCD, and others have either proven or convinced others the little cams work on these heads. I know Im a believer now. I couldnt drive my auto V6 any longer so that project took priority over this one but now Im back on it. I got a lot of help from Pat on the cam choice, but I changed intakes on him so I'll use something a little different than he spec'd. I plan on staying in that 8 degree split range.
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From: Your GF's pants
I think I got fantastic results with my little cam. 601/588, but the air temp was only 50 degrees so about 580ish is what I'm saying I have on the street with 10Lbs of boost. My cam is a 221/226, .567, .564, on a 114LSA, and -4 overlap. This cam works great N/A or boosted, functions with a 2100 converter or higher and operates from 2000-6400. If you wanna get really rowdy Pat will spec you out a MF for the L92 heads. E.P.S will most likely grind it and Geoff is a really really nice guy that will work with you. I never liked off the shelve Comp grinds. I always ran Lunati, Cam Motion or Iskendarian before I found out about Pat. So there are some better choices in my opinion. Specially for a race car.
It feels like a year ago with all I've done since then.
r572, thats a huge cam to only make 630fwhp. You gotta figure behind the 6L80 that this setup is making close to 600 at the flywheel.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/gen-5-cam...n-4-000-a.html
It's also a 376, 10 times easier to tune and drive, and Im sure makes a ton more under the curve. And if you compare that graph to graph 2 on that 408, they are not very far off.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com.../photo_11.html
It sucks that GMHTP's graphs all start at 3500, but at 3500 the two power levels are very close.
Also that 630hp is with a Vic jr vs a LS3 on the TSP LS3 setup above. This graph 2 is a better comparison and probably has about the same peak power with a 231/236. I think the car will be more fun with a little less power up top, and be able to drive it no problem at all anytime I want. Ive never owned an auto car either, so I have no real experience with cam buck and all that Ive read about with big cams+auto's. Right now Im leaning towards a 235/243 114 LSA and 110 ICL
r572, thats a huge cam to only make 630fwhp. You gotta figure behind the 6L80 that this setup is making close to 600 at the flywheel.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/gen-5-cam...n-4-000-a.html
It's also a 376, 10 times easier to tune and drive, and Im sure makes a ton more under the curve. And if you compare that graph to graph 2 on that 408, they are not very far off.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com.../photo_11.html
It sucks that GMHTP's graphs all start at 3500, but at 3500 the two power levels are very close.
Also that 630hp is with a Vic jr vs a LS3 on the TSP LS3 setup above. This graph 2 is a better comparison and probably has about the same peak power with a 231/236. I think the car will be more fun with a little less power up top, and be able to drive it no problem at all anytime I want. Ive never owned an auto car either, so I have no real experience with cam buck and all that Ive read about with big cams+auto's. Right now Im leaning towards a 235/243 114 LSA and 110 ICL