FAST 102 Flow Numbers???
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FAST 102 Flow Numbers??? Anybody come across CFM flow numbers for the new FAST 102 series of intake manifolds? I sure would like to know. Strangely, the people I contacted at FuelAirSpark do not know.
I was going to link you to the same link above. How can you expect FAST to give you an accurate answer?
Every head flows differently, as cast, hand ported, CNC, valve job, seat angle changes, larger valves, aftermarket castings, etc..... All flow differently and the fast will flow differently depending on the head its sitting on.
Plus every flow bench reads differently. You take the same head to 5 different flow benches and youll get 5 different numbers.
Every head flows differently, as cast, hand ported, CNC, valve job, seat angle changes, larger valves, aftermarket castings, etc..... All flow differently and the fast will flow differently depending on the head its sitting on.
Plus every flow bench reads differently. You take the same head to 5 different flow benches and youll get 5 different numbers.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Texas, Europe, Iraq & Afghanistan
Darkman, thanks for the link.
SweetS10V8, thanks for the lecture, but it was not needed. I know about the variables.
I am of the measure sixteen times, and cut once mentality.
I've spoken to the different manufacturers of throttle bodies and the people who make one-of $2,400.00 intake manifolds. But, I will continue to agonize over the details until things are just right. The new FAST 102 is almost comparable to the once public fiber-tuned intake.
It's too bad there are not calibrations for flow benches and dynamometers. If I go to a machinist and ask for .0001" I can get it. If I go to a CPA and ask for 20% depreciation I can get it several ways. If I ask a jeweler for an F quality diamond I can get it. But, when the accuracy of instruments designed to measure flow and power is asked, all kinds of excuses pop up.
Did you know that the people who manufacture the throttle bodies, and there are several, do not admit to knowing flow numbers. I find that strange. They offer several sizes, but don't know the differences. Gee, why even make them? Are the various sizes like 78, 85, 90, 92, 95, 96, 102, 110 all arbitrary, or for marketing? Who knows, but with metrics, intelligent decisions can be made. Head manufacturers publish flow numbers at 28" of water on X size bore, why not throttle body manufacturers? Anybody can give excuses. Maybe the vendors are counting on impulse purchasing.
My internally ported and port matched FAST 92 might be better than I thought. Now, if I can only figure out the best way to measure the plenum volume.
SweetS10V8, thanks for the lecture, but it was not needed. I know about the variables.
I am of the measure sixteen times, and cut once mentality.
I've spoken to the different manufacturers of throttle bodies and the people who make one-of $2,400.00 intake manifolds. But, I will continue to agonize over the details until things are just right. The new FAST 102 is almost comparable to the once public fiber-tuned intake.
It's too bad there are not calibrations for flow benches and dynamometers. If I go to a machinist and ask for .0001" I can get it. If I go to a CPA and ask for 20% depreciation I can get it several ways. If I ask a jeweler for an F quality diamond I can get it. But, when the accuracy of instruments designed to measure flow and power is asked, all kinds of excuses pop up.
Did you know that the people who manufacture the throttle bodies, and there are several, do not admit to knowing flow numbers. I find that strange. They offer several sizes, but don't know the differences. Gee, why even make them? Are the various sizes like 78, 85, 90, 92, 95, 96, 102, 110 all arbitrary, or for marketing? Who knows, but with metrics, intelligent decisions can be made. Head manufacturers publish flow numbers at 28" of water on X size bore, why not throttle body manufacturers? Anybody can give excuses. Maybe the vendors are counting on impulse purchasing.
My internally ported and port matched FAST 92 might be better than I thought. Now, if I can only figure out the best way to measure the plenum volume.
Last edited by Gregory; Sep 26, 2010 at 12:44 AM.
Did you know that the people who manufacture the throttle bodies, and there are several, do not admit to knowing flow numbers. I find that strange. Gee, why even make them? Are the various sizes like 78, 85, 90, 92, 95, 96, 102, 110 all arbitrary, or for marketing? Who knows.
I also know why there are so many sizes.
78mm was the first FAST and also bolted to the LS1 intakes.
85mms were for the BBK/Lingenfelter intake, and LS1/LS6 intakes people opened up.
90mms were for the 2nd FAST, most other aftermarket intakes, and OEM LS2 intakes.
92mms were for the 3rd FAST intake, 95/96mm were because people were opening up their 90mm intakes as far as they could.
102mm is the 4th FAST, 107/110mm is simply someone opening up the 102mm as far as possible.
Its simply a demand driven market, the aftermarket makes a larger intake and everyone still modifys it to make it even bigger. So the aftermarket makes it bigger again, and people cant leave well enough alone and make it even bigger again. Now if they "need" throttle bodies this big or not is up to them, the aftermarket simply supplies what the consumer is asking for.
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Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Texas, Europe, Iraq & Afghanistan
Gee, SweetS10V8, I must have got you on a talkative day. I communicated with three staff engineers at FuelAirSpark, not just the guy who answers the phone.
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Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Texas, Europe, Iraq & Afghanistan
I just got off the telephone from a gentleman in Florida who specializes in throttle bodies. I was referred to him by ProHeads of California. Names withheld intentionally.
As it turns out, large throttle bodies cannot be flow tested at the standard 28 inches of water because they are too big. They must be flowed at 15 inches of water. Apparently, people do not have flow benches big enough to handle the 1,000+ CFM of throttle bodies without going down to 15 inches of water. Unfortunately, the mathematical conversions from 15 to 28 are not accurate.
The software I have assumes all units of measurement are equivalent. Hence, a head that flows 340 CFM at 28 inches cannot be mated with a throttle body that flows 1080 CFM at 15 inches to provide accurate results. The software does not allow for the difference.
As it turns out, large throttle bodies cannot be flow tested at the standard 28 inches of water because they are too big. They must be flowed at 15 inches of water. Apparently, people do not have flow benches big enough to handle the 1,000+ CFM of throttle bodies without going down to 15 inches of water. Unfortunately, the mathematical conversions from 15 to 28 are not accurate.
The software I have assumes all units of measurement are equivalent. Hence, a head that flows 340 CFM at 28 inches cannot be mated with a throttle body that flows 1080 CFM at 15 inches to provide accurate results. The software does not allow for the difference.
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Wow, I wasn't expecting the stock FAST 92mm to flow just as good as the 102mm and I also thought the LS2 was a lot worse than the ls6 manifold up top, somewhere around 10-15cfm worse.
Looks like any worked 6.0L and up can really benefit from the ported 102mm. The composite style manifold can't be hurting it too bad at 292cfm.
Looks like any worked 6.0L and up can really benefit from the ported 102mm. The composite style manifold can't be hurting it too bad at 292cfm.
Last edited by camz28arro; Sep 28, 2010 at 12:16 AM.
