Square Port heads vs. Cathedral Port heads
06-30-2020, 11:24 AM
#221
So many things can determine what you experienced. Compression, cam, intake, throttle body or carb etc. Now this is just my personal experience if this is NA I will recommend a Rec port on a mid bore (4.000-4.070) unless it's a big nitrous deal which will be lazy on motor but a beast on the bottle. I'm not a fan of a small bore LS7 on hydraulic roller setups only revving under 7700rpms. Also many get turned off on port volume and again my theory the throat shape + S.A. will help with throttle response.
Compression was at 12:8.1 and running a 236/244 114LSA +2 camshaft.
The combination was healthy but I had a 6500rpm red line. Not a high RPM deal but even then I wasn't impressed.
My understanding is that LS7 heads need to revved out to over 7000rpm+ in order to get the benefits of that large runner. From 7500rpm+ they really make some steam.
I am talking street setups here with my statements.
Who is going to rev their car over 7000rpm with an automatic transmission?(4L65E)
Obviously at the track for high RPM purposes the rectangles make sense.
I find a lot of builders don't really care or place much emphasis on driveability and part throttle responsiveness for the street.
You don't want a sluggish motor that is only good in the high RPM's.
It won't be fun to drive other than at WOT which is not really practical for a street application.
The aftermarket cathedrals can make over 700hp NA and still have a lot of power under the curve at all RPM's which is why I went this route.
I know LS7's can make around 100hp+.but I guess on larger cubed motors like a 454 it wouldn't matter as much in terms of torque production as you will have enough.
Application dependant I guess.
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JRFed (06-30-2020)
06-30-2020, 11:38 AM
#222
So many things can determine what you experienced. Compression, cam, intake, throttle body or carb etc. Now this is just my personal experience if this is NA I will recommend a Rec port on a mid bore (4.000-4.070) unless it's a big nitrous deal which will be lazy on motor but a beast on the bottle. I'm not a fan of a small bore LS7 on hydraulic roller setups only revving under 7700rpms. Also many get turned off on port volume and again my theory the throat shape + S.A. will help with throttle response.
The following users liked this post:
JRFed (06-30-2020)
06-30-2020, 12:40 PM
#223
TECH Veteran
And yet till this day I've yet to seen another all motor pump gas hydraulic roller motor that out performed James Day SS camaro with TFS 235s.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/texas-mem...r-alive-4.html
Yes and yes she's a animal!!
Dyno numbers sound good sitting around drinking beer and talking. Track times keeps the wallet full of them Benjamins!!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/texas-mem...r-alive-4.html
Yes and yes she's a animal!!
Dyno numbers sound good sitting around drinking beer and talking. Track times keeps the wallet full of them Benjamins!!
The following users liked this post:
TTur1996 (06-30-2020)
06-30-2020, 12:52 PM
#224
And yet till this day I've yet to seen another all motor pump gas hydraulic roller motor that out performed James Day SS camaro with TFS 235s.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/texas-mem...r-alive-4.html
Yes and yes she's a animal!!
Dyno numbers sound good sitting around drinking beer and talking. Track times keeps the wallet full of them Benjamins!!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/texas-mem...r-alive-4.html
Yes and yes she's a animal!!
Dyno numbers sound good sitting around drinking beer and talking. Track times keeps the wallet full of them Benjamins!!
Dyno numbers are one thing but track times are another.
06-30-2020, 01:17 PM
#225
And yet till this day I've yet to seen another all motor pump gas hydraulic roller motor that out performed James Day SS camaro with TFS 235s.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/texas-mem...r-alive-4.html
Yes and yes she's a animal!!
Dyno numbers sound good sitting around drinking beer and talking. Track times keeps the wallet full of them Benjamins!!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/texas-mem...r-alive-4.html
Yes and yes she's a animal!!
Dyno numbers sound good sitting around drinking beer and talking. Track times keeps the wallet full of them Benjamins!!
06-30-2020, 02:01 PM
#226
And yet till this day I've yet to seen another all motor pump gas hydraulic roller motor that out performed James Day SS camaro with TFS 235s.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/texas-mem...r-alive-4.html
Yes and yes she's a animal!!
Dyno numbers sound good sitting around drinking beer and talking. Track times keeps the wallet full of them Benjamins!!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/texas-mem...r-alive-4.html
Yes and yes she's a animal!!
Dyno numbers sound good sitting around drinking beer and talking. Track times keeps the wallet full of them Benjamins!!
06-30-2020, 02:05 PM
#227
On The Tree
And yet till this day I've yet to seen another all motor pump gas hydraulic roller motor that out performed James Day SS camaro with TFS 235s.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/texas-mem...r-alive-4.html
Yes and yes she's a animal!!
Dyno numbers sound good sitting around drinking beer and talking. Track times keeps the wallet full of them Benjamins!!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/texas-mem...r-alive-4.html
Yes and yes she's a animal!!
Dyno numbers sound good sitting around drinking beer and talking. Track times keeps the wallet full of them Benjamins!!
I still till my 15yrs in this industry have yet to see a cat port out do a square port. Impressive for sure but it's NOT just the heads there. It's the combination.
I can assure you if he swaps heads cam and intake he will go faster.
Also depending what side of the industry you're in...
06-30-2020, 02:10 PM
#228
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ddnspider (06-30-2020)
06-30-2020, 02:48 PM
#232
[QUOTE=JRFed;20264618]Did he go 8.90 on pump 93?
I still till my 15yrs in this industry have yet to see a cat port out do a square port.
That is not what is going on at the track.
Impressive for sure but it's NOT just the heads there. It's the combination.
Yes it is impressive. That is my whole point. Why spend all that money to buy new stuff when most of us already had the old stuff and performs just as well for way less money. I can't explain it, but that is what I have experienced and seen with my own eyes. You are right. The combo can make or break you. Finding all this out in the real world is why we never ended up going LS7. There was no point.
I still till my 15yrs in this industry have yet to see a cat port out do a square port.
That is not what is going on at the track.
Impressive for sure but it's NOT just the heads there. It's the combination.
Yes it is impressive. That is my whole point. Why spend all that money to buy new stuff when most of us already had the old stuff and performs just as well for way less money. I can't explain it, but that is what I have experienced and seen with my own eyes. You are right. The combo can make or break you. Finding all this out in the real world is why we never ended up going LS7. There was no point.
The following users liked this post:
JRFed (06-30-2020)
06-30-2020, 02:55 PM
#233
TECH Veteran
Did he go 8.90 on pump 93?
I still till my 15yrs in this industry have yet to see a cat port out do a square port. Impressive for sure but it's NOT just the heads there. It's the combination.
I can assure you if he swaps heads cam and intake he will go faster.
Also depending what side of the industry you're in...
I still till my 15yrs in this industry have yet to see a cat port out do a square port. Impressive for sure but it's NOT just the heads there. It's the combination.
I can assure you if he swaps heads cam and intake he will go faster.
Also depending what side of the industry you're in...
06-30-2020, 03:03 PM
#234
I agree. I don't take away from anyone that builds a daily driver. You were the one to talk **** then call names. I even left your name off that post but you sure seemed to know who I was talking to, just like I did. If you really think its easy to get a car to do a 1.19 sixty at 3350 lbs. Then go drive around on the street and still be able to pull the wheels off the ground. You got another thing coming. Lmfao
06-30-2020, 03:44 PM
#235
I agree. I don't take away from anyone that builds a daily driver. You were the one to talk **** then call names. I even left your name off that post but you sure seemed to know who I was talking to, just like I did. If you really think its easy to get a car to do a 1.19 sixty at 3350 lbs. Then go drive around on the street and still be able to pull the wheels off the ground. You got another thing coming. Lmfao
06-30-2020, 03:49 PM
#236
On The Tree
06-30-2020, 04:01 PM
#237
On The Tree
[QUOTE=TTur1996;20264643] I see the opposite. I've flown to shops when I have guaranteed a gain. I've put my name on the mine a few times where I've removed XYZ's TF castings onto our LS3 and or LS7 spec the whole topend and go to the track with them and see an average of 2-3/10ths and 5-7mph gain less boost more power. Happy that those days are over though. The thing is yes run a Cat head and it will run great agreed. Now think about this would you rather keep adding more boost or more N02+timing to go faster or spend the extra coin to run faster on less boost or less timing and smaller pills and keep your engine happy? I agree you can go far with a cathedral but they are not efficient like an LS3 or LS7. Next Motorsports ran 4.50s cat heads 32lb of boost swapped to LS3 heads went the same 4.50s with 3mph gain and 8lbs less boost. I'll take a more efficient head over anything. Again what I'd do as my job is to make it easier for the public.
Did he go 8.90 on pump 93?
I still till my 15yrs in this industry have yet to see a cat port out do a square port.
That is not what is going on at the track.
Impressive for sure but it's NOT just the heads there. It's the combination.
Yes it is impressive. That is my whole point. Why spend all that money to buy new stuff when most of us already had the old stuff and performs just as well for way less money. I can't explain it, but that is what I have experienced and seen with my own eyes. You are right. The combo can make or break you. Finding all this out in the real world is why we never ended up going LS7. There was no point.
I still till my 15yrs in this industry have yet to see a cat port out do a square port.
That is not what is going on at the track.
Impressive for sure but it's NOT just the heads there. It's the combination.
Yes it is impressive. That is my whole point. Why spend all that money to buy new stuff when most of us already had the old stuff and performs just as well for way less money. I can't explain it, but that is what I have experienced and seen with my own eyes. You are right. The combo can make or break you. Finding all this out in the real world is why we never ended up going LS7. There was no point.
less boost more power. Happy that those days are over though. The thing is yes run a Cat head and it will run great agreed. Now think about this would you rather keep adding more boost or more N02+timing to go faster or spend the extra coin to run faster on less boost or less timing and smaller pills and keep your engine happy? I agree you can go far with a cathedral but they are not efficient like an LS3 or LS7. Next Motorsports ran 4.50s cat heads 32lb of boost swapped to LS3 heads went the same 4.50s with 3mph gain and 8lbs less boost. I'll take a more efficient head over anything. Again what I'd do as my job is to make it easier for the public. The following 3 users liked this post by JRFed:
06-30-2020, 04:06 PM
#238
[QUOTE=JRFed;20264676]
I see the opposite. I've flown to shops when I have guaranteed a gain. I've put my name on the mine a few times where I've removed XYZ's TF castings onto our LS3 and or LS7 spec the whole topend and go to the track with them and see an average of 2-3/10ths and 5-7mph gain less boost more power. Happy that those days are over though. The thing is yes run a Cat head and it will run great agreed. Now think about this would you rather keep adding more boost or more N02+timing to go faster or spend the extra coin to run faster on less boost or less timing and smaller pills and keep your engine happy? I agree you can go far with a cathedral but they are not efficient like an LS3 or LS7. Next Motorsports ran 4.50s cat heads 32lb of boost swapped to LS3 heads went the same 4.50s with 3mph gain and 8lbs less boost. I'll take a more efficient head over anything. Again what I'd do as my job is to make it easier for the public. HOLY!
I see the opposite. I've flown to shops when I have guaranteed a gain. I've put my name on the mine a few times where I've removed XYZ's TF castings onto our LS3 and or LS7 spec the whole topend and go to the track with them and see an average of 2-3/10ths and 5-7mph gain
less boost more power. Happy that those days are over though. The thing is yes run a Cat head and it will run great agreed. Now think about this would you rather keep adding more boost or more N02+timing to go faster or spend the extra coin to run faster on less boost or less timing and smaller pills and keep your engine happy? I agree you can go far with a cathedral but they are not efficient like an LS3 or LS7. Next Motorsports ran 4.50s cat heads 32lb of boost swapped to LS3 heads went the same 4.50s with 3mph gain and 8lbs less boost. I'll take a more efficient head over anything. Again what I'd do as my job is to make it easier for the public.
06-30-2020, 04:23 PM
#239
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I see the opposite. I've flown to shops when I have guaranteed a gain. I've put my name on the mine a few times where I've removed XYZ's TF castings onto our LS3 and or LS7 spec the whole topend and go to the track with them and see an average of 2-3/10ths and 5-7mph gain
less boost more power. Happy that those days are over though. The thing is yes run a Cat head and it will run great agreed. Now think about this would you rather keep adding more boost or more N02+timing to go faster or spend the extra coin to run faster on less boost or less timing and smaller pills and keep your engine happy? I agree you can go far with a cathedral but they are not efficient like an LS3 or LS7. Next Motorsports ran 4.50s cat heads 32lb of boost swapped to LS3 heads went the same 4.50s with 3mph gain and 8lbs less boost. I'll take a more efficient head over anything. Again what I'd do as my job is to make it easier for the public.
06-30-2020, 04:49 PM
#240
On The Tree