Why don't more people run the lsx 454 crate?
12-13-2010, 04:18 PM
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Why don't more people run the lsx 454 crate? I'm curious as to why more people don't use this motor (other than money).
It seems to be an awesome deal...
454 cubes, 620 hp, LSX iron block, under $10k, and A WARRANTY !
What are your guys reasons for not going with this motor, because it seems like the perfect street car engine. ?
It seems to be an awesome deal...
454 cubes, 620 hp, LSX iron block, under $10k, and A WARRANTY !
What are your guys reasons for not going with this motor, because it seems like the perfect street car engine. ?
12-13-2010, 06:42 PM
#3
I would have it if $ wasn't so short. Does GMPP balance these engines? It would be a shame not to balance it.
12-13-2010, 07:15 PM
#4
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$
Dolla Dolla Dolla bill yalll....... ..... yes the long block is under $10000...... but if your building from scratch..... your looking at around $10000+ .... and with this economy, guys are usually building with just the tip of the head vs going ***** deep......
Bozz
Dolla Dolla Dolla bill yalll....... ..... yes the long block is under $10000...... but if your building from scratch..... your looking at around $10000+ .... and with this economy, guys are usually building with just the tip of the head vs going ***** deep......
Bozz
12-13-2010, 07:57 PM
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$
Dolla Dolla Dolla bill yalll....... ..... yes the long block is under $10000...... but if your building from scratch..... your looking at around $10000+ .... and with this economy, guys are usually building with just the tip of the head vs going ***** deep......
Bozz
Dolla Dolla Dolla bill yalll....... ..... yes the long block is under $10000...... but if your building from scratch..... your looking at around $10000+ .... and with this economy, guys are usually building with just the tip of the head vs going ***** deep......
Bozz
What are you saying? Engine/trans/rear end etc..?
B/c that's not what I was referring too. I'm talking about the people who have the money to build engines, and I'm wondering why more people don't use this crate.
Obviously, people who can't afford it are automatically out lol. Myself included (atm at least)
12-13-2010, 09:01 PM
#7
Cause it's a turd in my opinion...
620 hp with a HEAVY iron block and a carb intake? If you can't make 700 hp with a CARB intake, you should go back to the drawing board.
Check out the latest Hot Rod where they took a 468 with Mast heads and made 762 hp with a carb intake, 732 with a Fast intake, or 1.56 hp/cu in. It uses a much lighter aluminum block to boot.
My 454 made 705 hp with cathedral TFS heads and a Fast intake, which is 1.55 hp/cu in, but I have less compression and less cam than the 468 did.
Either way, if you can't make 1.55-1.6 hp/cu in, then you haven't done your homework.
620 hp with a HEAVY iron block and a carb intake? If you can't make 700 hp with a CARB intake, you should go back to the drawing board.
Check out the latest Hot Rod where they took a 468 with Mast heads and made 762 hp with a carb intake, 732 with a Fast intake, or 1.56 hp/cu in. It uses a much lighter aluminum block to boot.
My 454 made 705 hp with cathedral TFS heads and a Fast intake, which is 1.55 hp/cu in, but I have less compression and less cam than the 468 did.
Either way, if you can't make 1.55-1.6 hp/cu in, then you haven't done your homework.
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12-13-2010, 11:02 PM
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Cause it's a turd in my opinion...
620 hp with a HEAVY iron block and a carb intake? If you can't make 700 hp with a CARB intake, you should go back to the drawing board.
Check out the latest Hot Rod where they took a 468 with Mast heads and made 762 hp with a carb intake, 732 with a Fast intake, or 1.56 hp/cu in. It uses a much lighter aluminum block to boot.
My 454 made 705 hp with cathedral TFS heads and a Fast intake, which is 1.55 hp/cu in, but I have less compression and less cam than the 468 did.
Either way, if you can't make 1.55-1.6 hp/cu in, then you haven't done your homework.
620 hp with a HEAVY iron block and a carb intake? If you can't make 700 hp with a CARB intake, you should go back to the drawing board.
Check out the latest Hot Rod where they took a 468 with Mast heads and made 762 hp with a carb intake, 732 with a Fast intake, or 1.56 hp/cu in. It uses a much lighter aluminum block to boot.
My 454 made 705 hp with cathedral TFS heads and a Fast intake, which is 1.55 hp/cu in, but I have less compression and less cam than the 468 did.
Either way, if you can't make 1.55-1.6 hp/cu in, then you haven't done your homework.
12-14-2010, 07:12 AM
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most people agree you can build a better engine for less money. I dont think its a turd after all I believe we are talking about 70 pound difference. If half the porkers in here can loose that much weight. LOL dont get but hurt guys. But I dont disagree lighter is better. 620 is not enough for 10k IMO
12-14-2010, 10:43 AM
#11
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What are you saying? Engine/trans/rear end etc..?
B/c that's not what I was referring too. I'm talking about the people who have the money to build engines, and I'm wondering why more people don't use this crate.
Obviously, people who can't afford it are automatically out lol. Myself included (atm at least)
B/c that's not what I was referring too. I'm talking about the people who have the money to build engines, and I'm wondering why more people don't use this crate.
Obviously, people who can't afford it are automatically out lol. Myself included (atm at least)
Just think about this, how many LS7's and I mean true LS7's running around here..... Not more than 5.3's,5.7's,6.0's,6.2's etc... whether it be a stroker or not... The main issue is money or cost, even a guy who has more resources, they mostly will tend to look for the best bang for the buck.....
Its a basic business model or market cycle.... supply and demand..... The markert is always working toward an equalibrium for the right price where supply=demand..... But where ever the equalibrium is, it shifts along the curve whether it be a downward shift or and outward shift, this will affect price...
ie..... if demand is greater than supply or supply is less than demand, then the price will generally be higher.... But in converse, if the supply is greater than demand, than the price will generally be less......
demand > than supply= ie shortage which causes higher prices
supply < than demand= same
supply > than demand= ie surplus which causes prices to fall
supply > than demand= more 5.3's,5.7's,6.0's,6.2's available helps keep prices lower for these goods and options. These cores are everywhere and filling up the junkyards...... plus GM is producing these at a faster rate than the said LS7 in production cars.... and the LSX454 is not being produced in factory production, so it turns into a luxary good or product.....
I could draw you a model but I will save you the guano, by the way, I have a Bachelors in Economics....lol
Bluecollar guys are not the only ones feeling the effects of Bushonomics..... also give the 454 some time, it is still relatively early since they were made public.... I mean its only been what 1-2 years?
So give it some time the LS7 still has not been utilized in mass production as greatly as the 5.3's,6.0's,6.2's even stroker combo's....
For years the LSX swap was often avoided due to the cost but since there is a surplus of cores now and a multiple of aftermarket vendors, the swap or options have been more affordable.....
remeber only 4% of the US makes more than $100000 a year...... the rest or aka middle class which is shrinking everyday, and the rest or poor......
Bozz
12-14-2010, 11:21 AM
#12
Here are a few reasons why
1. It does not come with an intake from GM.
2. It does not come with a windage tray, oil pan, pickup tube, dip stick, dipstick tube.
3. It does not come with coils.
4. The valve covers on it do not support mounting the coils onto the covers making remote mount necessary.
5. It comes with LS7 heads as the only option. (The 454R is actually a DR headed version now, but supposed to be tall deck so....another story.)
6. It comes with a very specific crankshaft. 8 bolt. Meaning no other GM flywheel or flexplate will work for it. (save for the LSA which has not been confirmed as of yet).
7. It is still advertised as a tall deck even though it is not.
8. Cyl heads need some love to make them produce bigger numbers.
9. The cam could be different, but if you change it, there goes the warranty.
10. We can build a custom 454LSX for roughly the same price as this one in the trim its in.
1. It does not come with an intake from GM.
2. It does not come with a windage tray, oil pan, pickup tube, dip stick, dipstick tube.
3. It does not come with coils.
4. The valve covers on it do not support mounting the coils onto the covers making remote mount necessary.
5. It comes with LS7 heads as the only option. (The 454R is actually a DR headed version now, but supposed to be tall deck so....another story.)
6. It comes with a very specific crankshaft. 8 bolt. Meaning no other GM flywheel or flexplate will work for it. (save for the LSA which has not been confirmed as of yet).
7. It is still advertised as a tall deck even though it is not.
8. Cyl heads need some love to make them produce bigger numbers.
9. The cam could be different, but if you change it, there goes the warranty.
10. We can build a custom 454LSX for roughly the same price as this one in the trim its in.
12-14-2010, 03:33 PM
#13
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What I am saying is, unless you have most of the parts like LS7 topend (intake,TB,etc...) or carb intake to fit the said heads for the swap etc...then it maybe not that bad... but if your starting from scratch, it can get costly....
Just think about this, how many LS7's and I mean true LS7's running around here..... Not more than 5.3's,5.7's,6.0's,6.2's etc... whether it be a stroker or not... The main issue is money or cost, even a guy who has more resources, they mostly will tend to look for the best bang for the buck.....
Its a basic business model or market cycle.... supply and demand..... The markert is always working toward an equalibrium for the right price where supply=demand..... But where ever the equalibrium is, it shifts along the curve whether it be a downward shift or and outward shift, this will affect price...
ie..... if demand is greater than supply or supply is less than demand, then the price will generally be higher.... But in converse, if the supply is greater than demand, than the price will generally be less......
demand > than supply= ie shortage which causes higher prices
supply < than demand= same
supply > than demand= ie surplus which causes prices to fall
supply > than demand= more 5.3's,5.7's,6.0's,6.2's available helps keep prices lower for these goods and options. These cores are everywhere and filling up the junkyards...... plus GM is producing these at a faster rate than the said LS7 in production cars.... and the LSX454 is not being produced in factory production, so it turns into a luxary good or product.....
I could draw you a model but I will save you the guano, by the way, I have a Bachelors in Economics....lol
Bluecollar guys are not the only ones feeling the effects of Bushonomics..... also give the 454 some time, it is still relatively early since they were made public.... I mean its only been what 1-2 years?
So give it some time the LS7 still has not been utilized in mass production as greatly as the 5.3's,6.0's,6.2's even stroker combo's....
For years the LSX swap was often avoided due to the cost but since there is a surplus of cores now and a multiple of aftermarket vendors, the swap or options have been more affordable.....
remeber only 4% of the US makes more than $100000 a year...... the rest or aka middle class which is shrinking everyday, and the rest or poor......
Bozz
Just think about this, how many LS7's and I mean true LS7's running around here..... Not more than 5.3's,5.7's,6.0's,6.2's etc... whether it be a stroker or not... The main issue is money or cost, even a guy who has more resources, they mostly will tend to look for the best bang for the buck.....
Its a basic business model or market cycle.... supply and demand..... The markert is always working toward an equalibrium for the right price where supply=demand..... But where ever the equalibrium is, it shifts along the curve whether it be a downward shift or and outward shift, this will affect price...
ie..... if demand is greater than supply or supply is less than demand, then the price will generally be higher.... But in converse, if the supply is greater than demand, than the price will generally be less......
demand > than supply= ie shortage which causes higher prices
supply < than demand= same
supply > than demand= ie surplus which causes prices to fall
supply > than demand= more 5.3's,5.7's,6.0's,6.2's available helps keep prices lower for these goods and options. These cores are everywhere and filling up the junkyards...... plus GM is producing these at a faster rate than the said LS7 in production cars.... and the LSX454 is not being produced in factory production, so it turns into a luxary good or product.....
I could draw you a model but I will save you the guano, by the way, I have a Bachelors in Economics....lol
Bluecollar guys are not the only ones feeling the effects of Bushonomics..... also give the 454 some time, it is still relatively early since they were made public.... I mean its only been what 1-2 years?
So give it some time the LS7 still has not been utilized in mass production as greatly as the 5.3's,6.0's,6.2's even stroker combo's....
For years the LSX swap was often avoided due to the cost but since there is a surplus of cores now and a multiple of aftermarket vendors, the swap or options have been more affordable.....
remeber only 4% of the US makes more than $100000 a year...... the rest or aka middle class which is shrinking everyday, and the rest or poor......
Bozz
........So what would be a better option to the lsx 454
12-14-2010, 03:36 PM
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Here are a few reasons why
1. It does not come with an intake from GM.
2. It does not come with a windage tray, oil pan, pickup tube, dip stick, dipstick tube.
3. It does not come with coils.
4. The valve covers on it do not support mounting the coils onto the covers making remote mount necessary.
5. It comes with LS7 heads as the only option. (The 454R is actually a DR headed version now, but supposed to be tall deck so....another story.)
6. It comes with a very specific crankshaft. 8 bolt. Meaning no other GM flywheel or flexplate will work for it. (save for the LSA which has not been confirmed as of yet).
7. It is still advertised as a tall deck even though it is not.
8. Cyl heads need some love to make them produce bigger numbers.
9. The cam could be different, but if you change it, there goes the warranty.
10. We can build a custom 454LSX for roughly the same price as this one in the trim its in.
1. It does not come with an intake from GM.
2. It does not come with a windage tray, oil pan, pickup tube, dip stick, dipstick tube.
3. It does not come with coils.
4. The valve covers on it do not support mounting the coils onto the covers making remote mount necessary.
5. It comes with LS7 heads as the only option. (The 454R is actually a DR headed version now, but supposed to be tall deck so....another story.)
6. It comes with a very specific crankshaft. 8 bolt. Meaning no other GM flywheel or flexplate will work for it. (save for the LSA which has not been confirmed as of yet).
7. It is still advertised as a tall deck even though it is not.
8. Cyl heads need some love to make them produce bigger numbers.
9. The cam could be different, but if you change it, there goes the warranty.
10. We can build a custom 454LSX for roughly the same price as this one in the trim its in.
What would be the cost of a complete (Ie. including intake) of a well built 454 ? You're saying you could build one for less then $10k ?
12-14-2010, 03:44 PM
#15
TECH Enthusiast
Whatever your pockets can afford..... Its cool to talk in the "what if" but in the real world it depends on the intent of the car and pocketbook...
If you want to know why the rich don't buy them, then your probably in the wrong forum.....lol......
most guys here have more time than money, including myself...
Bozz
If you want to know why the rich don't buy them, then your probably in the wrong forum.....lol......
most guys here have more time than money, including myself...
Bozz
12-14-2010, 04:43 PM
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Here are a few reasons why
1. It does not come with an intake from GM.
2. It does not come with a windage tray, oil pan, pickup tube, dip stick, dipstick tube.
3. It does not come with coils.
4. The valve covers on it do not support mounting the coils onto the covers making remote mount necessary.
5. It comes with LS7 heads as the only option. (The 454R is actually a DR headed version now, but supposed to be tall deck so....another story.)
6. It comes with a very specific crankshaft. 8 bolt. Meaning no other GM flywheel or flexplate will work for it. (save for the LSA which has not been confirmed as of yet).
7. It is still advertised as a tall deck even though it is not.
8. Cyl heads need some love to make them produce bigger numbers.
9. The cam could be different, but if you change it, there goes the warranty.
10. We can build a custom 454LSX for roughly the same price as this one in the trim its in.
1. It does not come with an intake from GM.
2. It does not come with a windage tray, oil pan, pickup tube, dip stick, dipstick tube.
3. It does not come with coils.
4. The valve covers on it do not support mounting the coils onto the covers making remote mount necessary.
5. It comes with LS7 heads as the only option. (The 454R is actually a DR headed version now, but supposed to be tall deck so....another story.)
6. It comes with a very specific crankshaft. 8 bolt. Meaning no other GM flywheel or flexplate will work for it. (save for the LSA which has not been confirmed as of yet).
7. It is still advertised as a tall deck even though it is not.
8. Cyl heads need some love to make them produce bigger numbers.
9. The cam could be different, but if you change it, there goes the warranty.
10. We can build a custom 454LSX for roughly the same price as this one in the trim its in.
12-14-2010, 05:14 PM
#18
Being able to find parts for an engine from another person on tech or the salvage yard makes engines more desirable to most people I talk to. But then again, some would rather have good quality new parts as well. That is where ya'll come in.
And by no means am I taking a shot at the GMPP LSX454. It is a very good engine. It works well and produces good power. I am just stating the comments I normally get for them. They have a GM warranty though, which is really 2nd to none.
12-14-2010, 06:27 PM
#19
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I know that part. I think we have one here already! Ha. I mean as far as interchangeability between GM models of cars trucks etc. Also, we need more RSTs! Lol.
Being able to find parts for an engine from another person on tech or the salvage yard makes engines more desirable to most people I talk to. But then again, some would rather have good quality new parts as well. That is where ya'll come in.
And by no means am I taking a shot at the GMPP LSX454. It is a very good engine. It works well and produces good power. I am just stating the comments I normally get for them. They have a GM warranty though, which is really 2nd to none.
Being able to find parts for an engine from another person on tech or the salvage yard makes engines more desirable to most people I talk to. But then again, some would rather have good quality new parts as well. That is where ya'll come in.
And by no means am I taking a shot at the GMPP LSX454. It is a very good engine. It works well and produces good power. I am just stating the comments I normally get for them. They have a GM warranty though, which is really 2nd to none.
12-14-2010, 06:32 PM
#20
A custom built engine as is from us using the LSX block with say callies products for the crank and rods and a number of different pistons and the GM LSX-LS7 heads would run about the same cost. Including all you see there. It depends on what you want in the grand scheme as to what the total cost would be. Lay it out for me and I can get you a ball park.