1989GTA

Interesting, thanks for the reply. I wonder how many people actually degree in their VVT cam?

Che70velle

iTrader: (6)

...or any non-vvt cam as far as that goes!

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

Cleaning up my post since most of it was completely wrong.

1) Apparently my Cam Card is already adjusted for the Base 7deg Advance. The L99 phaser degree'd to the Cam Card when installed straight up and no wedges.

2) Contrary to the CompCams warning, there's NO pin offset between my L92 and L99 phasers. The L92 phaser comes up 17deg Advance base on my L99 cam. It was exactly 10deg advanced from the L99 phaser.

It's definitely a different phaser (L92 vs L99), so the warning may be related to the LY6 phaser ???

1989GTA

So in picture two is that lined up dot to dot. Hard for me to tell.

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

The cam is advanced one tooth. ~8deg cam deg == ~16deg crank

As a remimder, if you degree with the same version of the phaser as your cam core, you won't have to do as much work.

1989GTA

I will be installing the TSP VVT3 camshaft and the CompCams phasing limiter. That is why I am highly interested in this thread as VVT is all new to me.

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

Called CompCams and they couldn't give me any info on my finding and even suggested that the COMP4-133 Technical bulletin was given to them by GM and was never verified? Anyone have a verifiable 12585994 phaser they'd like to donate to the cause, I'll pay shipping?

I've read conflicting information about the early 6.0l VVT (LFA?) actuator, the early 6.2l VVT actuator, and the late model 12606358 actuator that all the 5.3l, 6.0, 6.2l engines use now. It leads me to believe that there are actually 3 types, but no part numbers to back it up.

The problem is more confusing because my original 2007 L92 phaser has NO part numbers on it.

The 3 phasers I've found references to, have:
- 62 degrees of authority, from 17deg Advance to 45deg Retard
- 46 degrees of authority, from 17deg Advance to 29deg Retard
- 52 degrees of authority, from 7deg Advance to 45deg Retard

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

TSP VVT2 cam
Finished my PTV checks. My Mahle L92 pistons have Intake valve reliefs (.220) and slightly deeper Exhaust reliefs (.150) compared to stock Exhaust relief (.120). I locked my unsprung L92 phaser at 15deg retarded. I used my L99 phaser for the 7deg advance base.

Base Cam timing of 7degrees Advanced:

Intake: 0.295
Exhaust: 0.260

Cam timing fully retarded to limiter block (22deg ) of 15degrees Retarded:

Intake: 0.335
Exhaust: 0.195

-----------------
These would give approx stock results:

Base: I/E 0.075/0.230
Full Ret: I/E 0.115/0.155

Which seem kinda tight on the Intake side, though Intakes chase the piston and don't usually have PTV issues. Also my pistons are 0.016 out of the hole and stock pistons may gain additional clearances there.

At least I know I can go with a much bigger cam if I decide to..

1989GTA

When I install my VVT3 camshaft I will be using the Comp Cams phaser limiting block. So my question is when checking the PTV clearance do you do it with the phaser resting against the newly installed "block" or limiter?

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

A working phaser will be fully advanced (base) and you can check minimum intake PTV there. The tricky part is testing fully retarded (or to the limiter) since you'll need oil pressure or an unsprung phaser to test that for minimum exhaust PTV. That's why I took apart my stock L92 phaser and degreed the cam with it locked retared enough to equal the expected 15deg retarded. (7 deg advance base + 22 deg limiter block)

(my testing phaser is on the shelf now and I'd be happy to send it out if you pay shipping and return it when done. Fit in a flat rate USPS box I'm sure..)

1989GTA

I will probably be doing this in the next couple of weeks. It will depend if my pully remover will work on removing the L92 balancer. The motor is on an engine stand. That might be a problem when I go to torque the thing back in place at 240ft-lbs.

Then again does not the Comp Cams Phaser limiter prevent the camshaft from retarding it that much? Maybe I only have to do the advance portion.

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

The limiter restricts to only 22deg instead of the factory 52 deg.

(a 3jaw puller will work on the L92 damper. 2 old flywheel bolts and a breaker bar wedged in the enginstand will hold the 250lb-ft of a arp crank bolt.)

1989GTA

Thanks, I have a 3 jaw and hopefully it will work. I think I have it backwards in the above post. Does not the limiter limit how far the cam is advanced? With no oil press the cam is retarded as far as it will go. See if I have that right.

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

The cam is max advanced at rest, this is where you want max advanced to give you more torque at low rpms and lower oil pressure. The ECM can only retard the cam away from its base setting. The limiter block is between the phaser vane and the stock stop for max retard. To check PTV at max retard the phaser must be rotated (retarded) to where the limiter stops it, and held there.

The pics in this thread actually show the back (cam) side of the phaser, so the pics rotation are backwards relative to when installed.

-TheBandit-

iTrader: (1)

To elaborate on this, I believe the appropriate Comp Cam cores are

Phaser # 12585994 uses Comp limiter kit #5456, 156 core
Phaser # 12606358 uses Comp limiter kit #5460, 189 core

I discovered last night I have the wrong limiter kit for my phaser, but I did get the right cam core. Hopefully TSP will exchange it for me.

-TheBandit-

iTrader: (1)

I don't really understand this statement. Rather than refering to these as L92 and L99 phasers, can you refer to them by their P/Ns? The -994 phaser and the -358 phaser. Are you saying there was a 7deg difference between the two phasers you tried?

Regarding the possible LY6 difference, my '07 LY6 has the -358 phaser whereas I think tiresmokinV8's LY6 has the -994 phaser. I don't think the phasers are engine/family specific.

The pin location may look the same but be different relative to the vanes or relative to the encoder wheel. Whatever the case, I would make sure you have a matched set. I wish the information on this wasn't so spotty. Thanks for doing what you're doing to find out where things stand.

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

My statement was in regard to the comp the bulletin you posted,
Saying there is a pin difference. While there may be a diff in either
The cores or the phasers, I found there's not a diff in both.. I used
My '07 L92 phaser (I refer to it this way because it has no PN on it
that I can find) and it degreed at 17 deg base with my 189 core cam.
This is exactly what a 156 core cam should degree to on this L92
Phaser.

I was expecting a pin diff in both so that I would see the 13deg change
In mixing core&phaser, but I did not. The tech bulletin really needs to
More clear about where the 13deg change would come in..

To confuse even more, there are diagrams on the HPTuners site about
A LFA 6.0L phaser having different specs than either of the Early and
Late model phasers that the bulletin calls out...

I agree we need more data, I'm just sad my chance at providing it
Has passed since my long block is going to be installed this weekend..

[edit: I cleaned up the L92 phaser and finally found the faint 12585994 part number. So it only goes to question where the 13deg difference comes from in the bulletin? I found it to be the 10 deg diff I was expecting since it moved the VVT2 cam back from 7deg adv base, to 17deg adv base putting the -994 phaser on a 189 cam core...]

The statement from the Comp 133-4 bulletin that I reference is:
"The difference in camshaft core is the pin to centerline position. The difference in pin between 156 and 189 equates to 13 degrees camretard (if a 156 is used where a 189 is required)."

So I can surmise that since they talk camretard, they are talking about someone ordering/using an older 156- core on a -358 phaser, but my testing shows that this would only cause 5 deg camretard (10 deg crankretard)

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...t=17883&page=2 is the hptuners link I reference that has phaser/actuator diagrams from Alldata..

LongIsland63SS409

iTrader: (22)

Where did you get the lifter bore to dial indicator extentsion?

Thanks,
Mike

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

Everything was from a compcams degree kit I purchased several years ago.

LongIsland63SS409

iTrader: (22)

Thank you for posting the phaser info.

My TSP VVT 3 cam did not come with the long bolt?
Is the bolt reqd to do the cam swap?


Thanks,
Mike