would titanium valves make gains
would titanium valves make gains If you were bound by rules :
LS-3 package. Mild cam (similar to ASA) stock stroke and bore
stock Rockers.1:7:1
springs are free valves/seats are free retainers( but must have same physical dimensions as stock).
push rods, and lifters are free.
no port no polish 10:7:1 comp rev limited at 6800.
Starting with bare ls-3 head castings. taking weight out of the valve train with Titanium valve, would it gain over a sodium filled valve for example.
Plan is to run a beehive. PSI 1511, Comp 918, or PAC 1218 or 1219 valve spring with Titanium retainers.
The valve seats are as important in the application as the valve .What valve seat would you recommend with Sodium or Titanium valve. 2.165 intake 1.59 exhaust. 4.9 length. I believe that is factory spec.
Looking for gains in a spec package. Where do you see it?
LS-3 package. Mild cam (similar to ASA) stock stroke and bore
stock Rockers.1:7:1
springs are free valves/seats are free retainers( but must have same physical dimensions as stock).
push rods, and lifters are free.
no port no polish 10:7:1 comp rev limited at 6800.
Starting with bare ls-3 head castings. taking weight out of the valve train with Titanium valve, would it gain over a sodium filled valve for example.
Plan is to run a beehive. PSI 1511, Comp 918, or PAC 1218 or 1219 valve spring with Titanium retainers.
The valve seats are as important in the application as the valve .What valve seat would you recommend with Sodium or Titanium valve. 2.165 intake 1.59 exhaust. 4.9 length. I believe that is factory spec.
Looking for gains in a spec package. Where do you see it?
For what its worth people love the factory ls3 valves. They are light, pretty stout, and fairly robust. I dont think for you to switch valves would net you much if any at all over stock valves.
So with out higher lift/ duration and RMP you don't see any gain at the top of the allowable RPM range. "The thing is just not spinning fast enough and opening high/Long enough for the lighter components to help?"
FWIW These engines will be flogged not driven on the street
FWIW These engines will be flogged not driven on the street
for this application 8hp of gain would be worth the effort. 20hp gain would be big.
I will check weights on valves I believe Titanium is lighter but I need to get that number. Cost is always a factor but not a driving force here. I would enjoy the byproduct of value for result but the result is what I am after. I am trending with the current political mode "I plan on addressing the cost later" I just want the result now.
I will check weights on valves I believe Titanium is lighter but I need to get that number. Cost is always a factor but not a driving force here. I would enjoy the byproduct of value for result but the result is what I am after. I am trending with the current political mode "I plan on addressing the cost later" I just want the result now.
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in my search I have found titanium valves but they are to big for the spec. I have found Manley and the like products in Titanium at 2.170 The spec I need is 2.165 What seat materials would be available and complementary to Titanium valves. Beryllium or is there another recommendation. Retainers in Titanium are not hard to source. Does any one have experience with Chrome alloy push ? Is there a gain through thinner wall push rods?
in my search I have found titanium valves but they are to big for the spec. I have found Manley and the like products in Titanium at 2.170 The spec I need is 2.165 What seat materials would be available and complementary to Titanium valves. Beryllium or is there another recommendation. Retainers in Titanium are not hard to source. Does any one have experience with Chrome alloy push ? Is there a gain through thinner wall push rods?
cant machine heads rules. Have to stay with stock dimensions. Push rods are free , material /length. probably good advice to go with a thicker pushrod when starting to push the valve train. I am sure boomers(mechanical over-revs) are the enemy in our application My general engine experience is with Porsche engines, No pushrods.
I have done a little LS-1 stuff but that package was essentially already developed. We did not use Titanium stuff in those heads (243's) The rods were stock and the lifters were ls-7.
Head flow is limited by casting. As was the case in the ls-1 package. Just trying to fling some stuff out to generate feedback that could save me two or three generations of development progress.
Oiling is the key on these deals what are the techniques used on the LS-3 case to create better oiling. or are they just run what you brung, GM got it figured out? A Melling oil pump is in this build
I have done a little LS-1 stuff but that package was essentially already developed. We did not use Titanium stuff in those heads (243's) The rods were stock and the lifters were ls-7.
Head flow is limited by casting. As was the case in the ls-1 package. Just trying to fling some stuff out to generate feedback that could save me two or three generations of development progress.
Oiling is the key on these deals what are the techniques used on the LS-3 case to create better oiling. or are they just run what you brung, GM got it figured out? A Melling oil pump is in this build
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Ti valves will allow you to run a more aggressive cam given you still have an RPM limit restriction. Thats where most of the extra power will come from. If you can not go to a larger diameter pushrod then run a thicker wall 5/16" in a three peice piece design like from Manton Pushrods. Valve seats can be iron for longevity with no isues as long as the valve train is stable. Beryllium Copper seats transfer heat better but will not have the longevity. More forequent valve jobs on the seat. For best longevity use CrN coated intake valves. Del West Engineering may have valves for that head and are CrN coated on the intake. Go with the GM Performance lifter (GM p/n 88958689 i believe). These lifters are suited for high cycle durability in full racing applications. PSI 1511 springs without question.
Durabond has a line of copper infused powdered metal valve seats to mimic what the OEM has put out. I'd like to try them out in my next build, but as of yet I don't have experience with them.
As for oiling, if you can use a dry sump, do it! ARE makes a pan than utilizes the traditional oil pump as a scavenge from the reservoir, which is neat. You just add an external pump with however many stages you need to scavenge from the engine to the reservoir. The LS motors are bad about aerated oil, which I suspect is the reason they released dry dumps in their factory corvettes. If a dry sump is prohibited, an Accusump will be the next best option.
As for oiling, if you can use a dry sump, do it! ARE makes a pan than utilizes the traditional oil pump as a scavenge from the reservoir, which is neat. You just add an external pump with however many stages you need to scavenge from the engine to the reservoir. The LS motors are bad about aerated oil, which I suspect is the reason they released dry dumps in their factory corvettes. If a dry sump is prohibited, an Accusump will be the next best option.
The spec does allow dry sump. We like the ARE set up it works well and the folks over there are fantastic. . The cam is stamped spec similar to the ASA cam. Mild lift. Cant get more or less just is what it is.Thanks for the input. I will look at all the components suggested. I would be happy with 70hrs run time out of the heads between freshening.
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Lighter weight valves will give you more rwhp. Just like rotating weight reduction nets you more than chassis weight reduction, valves are reciprocating weight, and the gains are even more significant.
Also, a dry sump takes more hp to run than a normal wet sump.
Also, a dry sump takes more hp to run than a normal wet sump.
but the question is, how light are the titanium valves vs the hollow stem ls3 valves?
The spec does allow dry sump. We like the ARE set up it works well and the folks over there are fantastic. . The cam is stamped spec similar to the ASA cam. Mild lift. Cant get more or less just is what it is.Thanks for the input. I will look at all the components suggested. I would be happy with 70hrs run time out of the heads between freshening.
The OP stated in the first post that the RPM limit is 6800, at this rpm I see no perfomance advantage to spending money on valves.