Small Cam LS3 build in a 4th gen
03-21-2013, 10:44 PM
#21
.581" .588"
The TSP 225 cam is very driveable. Minimal tuning and the LS3 is in a 73 Camaro. I didn't buy it for the dyno numbers. I made my choice looking for a cam that will out perform the stock cam by a good margin. Have a bit of chop at idle, not much but a bit and still run down the road on a long trip at 22 mpg plus.
I've had the big and bigger cams in cars. They are kind of like a hardtail motorcycle . The hardtail gives you the total chopper expirence in about 20 miles. Same thing with a big cam.
Kind off the subject to the original OP.
I've had the big and bigger cams in cars. They are kind of like a hardtail motorcycle . The hardtail gives you the total chopper expirence in about 20 miles. Same thing with a big cam.
Kind off the subject to the original OP.
03-22-2013, 04:04 PM
#22
Thanks Martin! A strong torque curve and complete drivability is what im after. Just looking to keep it fun and reliable without having to check valve springs every 10k. The stage 1 sounds pretty nice! Id be willing to go a little bigger too. When i get my 70 stage 1 back together ill be contact with you!
03-25-2013, 09:00 PM
#23
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Why not use the LS9 cam? I have a LS7 cam in my LS3. It made 420 rwhp through manual trans. This is in my 1970 GTO. The LS9 cam is almost identical to the LS7 cam and its 120 bucks...
Andrew
Andrew
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06-12-2013, 11:05 AM
#24
I wouldn't really suggest anything much bigger, but we can also do a custom grind that will keep overlap low and stretch some of the valve events out, but I prefer the Stage 1 in a DD application. The Stage 2 would be borderline for a DD vehicle as the LS3/L92 heads are overlap sensitive.
06-12-2013, 12:18 PM
#25
I think the LS3 heads work fantastic with a smaller cam. Im running a 220-230 at .050 but with a carb intake , so the LSA is 108+4, lift is .629 on both sides and it is a beast for the vacuum and drivability. Does a 1.7 60ft with a 2200rpm converter and 3.42 gears in a 3500 lbs car and pulls to 7K . Those heads will carry the top end, so concentrate the cam on lowend torque and you wont be disappointed .My engine is an untouched LS3 crate except the cam ,intake and exhaust.
Last edited by newschool72; 06-12-2013 at 01:54 PM.
06-12-2013, 11:41 PM
#26
I think the LS3 heads work fantastic with a smaller cam. Im running a 220-230 at .050 but with a carb intake , so the LSA is 108+4, lift is .629 on both sides and it is a beast for the vacuum and drivability. Does a 1.7 60ft with a 2200rpm converter and 3.42 gears in a 3500 lbs car and pulls to 7K . Those heads will carry the top end, so concentrate the cam on lowend torque and you wont be disappointed .My engine is an untouched LS3 crate except the cam ,intake and exhaust.
06-13-2013, 12:58 AM
#27
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Go with the 224/228 112+2. It will run good. The LS3 heads do best ported. I have built a DoD cammed G8 221/225 .558/.564 113+1, ported heads, intake, and TB, stock 2.92 gear, and stock converter- 4050lbs. Ran 11.84@122 1.94 60ft -300DA
Small cams can run...
Small cams can run...
06-13-2013, 07:20 AM
#28
Wow nice 60ft times with a small converter! What does your car run if you dont mind me asking? I have seen plenty of mid 220 cams making some great power. Ive already ordered the stage 2 from tick. Initially i was going to go a lot smaller since its my daily but temptation got the best of me.
Anyway, Im headed back to the track for redemption next weekend. To answer your question though, shifting at 5200-5500, the car ran 12.42 at 109. It ran like an 11 sec car up to about 4800, then acted more like a 15 sec car to 5500. Im excited to see what it has in it now. Im hoping to break into the 11s, which would be a pretty big deal for me . I didn't build the car for dragracing. It has hotchkis suspension ,big brakes, vintage air, ps,pb. I put it together to run and handle with the new muscle cars from the big 3, but in a classic 70s body.
As far as the stage 2 cam goes, LOL, been there done that! It seem to be built into our DNA to look to the bottom of the page when picking a cam. The bad thing is, it leads to much more money spent , to get the potential out of our choice. Well I need to mill the heads to get the compression up because the cam is lazy down low, and while Im at it, might as well do a good CNC job while they are off. These stock gears don't let me get to the sweet spot in the cam soon enough so I bet a set of 4.10s would be perfect. This stall is just not cutting it for some reason. It is suppose to go to 3600, but is only doing 3000 because my engine wont make enough torque down low make the converter work. I need a 4500 stall now. Where did my daily driver go!!?? I will just get a Honda to drive to work and save my other "daily driver" for the weekend, the list goes on..........LOL!
Ive learned , after many years of living the paragraph above, the cam shouldn't be the "BIG" part in the engine, but ,if anything, one step smaller than it wants.
Last edited by newschool72; 06-13-2013 at 08:31 AM.
06-13-2013, 07:53 AM
#29
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I run a lunati 217/228 112 .565 lift... runs awesome! Traps 116 so far, only other mods are long tubes and a tune. I should be able to pull 118+ with a few boltons, it made very nice flat power. Sounds wicked to with the bullets dumped at the rear.
06-13-2013, 05:33 PM
#30
I don't know why so many are scared of large cams. Large cams make for added pumping losses. If you can make up that pumping loss with compression you've gotten the best of both worlds.
Most people just want their horsepower delivered to them on a plate though and don't want to do the necessary things to make their combination go from OK to awesome.
Most people just want their horsepower delivered to them on a plate though and don't want to do the necessary things to make their combination go from OK to awesome.
06-14-2013, 10:23 AM
#35
I wasn't singling you out ,Martin, but you did say just raise the compression to make up for pumping loses with the fatter cam, right?
All I am trying to say to the OP is, matching your combo is important for a strong running , overall performer and that going big on any one part can upset the apple cart and make for a temperamental DAYLY driver.
I respect you and admire your knowledge in valve trains and recommend you to anyone who asks, and I have no beef with you, regardless of whether or not we agreed on my cam needs a while back. Its just really EZ to pick too big a cam for a hotrodder. They cost the same and look cool on paper, so why not? Then its all money pit from there. The OP actually did just that. You recommended the stage 1 and now he has the stage 2 on the way. Just trying to put my .02 in for the OP to maybe save him some of the same headaches Ive had in the past.
Im sorry if it looked like I tried to disrespect you. It was not my intention. Now , back on point. Sorry for the jack, OP.
All I am trying to say to the OP is, matching your combo is important for a strong running , overall performer and that going big on any one part can upset the apple cart and make for a temperamental DAYLY driver.
I respect you and admire your knowledge in valve trains and recommend you to anyone who asks, and I have no beef with you, regardless of whether or not we agreed on my cam needs a while back. Its just really EZ to pick too big a cam for a hotrodder. They cost the same and look cool on paper, so why not? Then its all money pit from there. The OP actually did just that. You recommended the stage 1 and now he has the stage 2 on the way. Just trying to put my .02 in for the OP to maybe save him some of the same headaches Ive had in the past.
Im sorry if it looked like I tried to disrespect you. It was not my intention. Now , back on point. Sorry for the jack, OP.
06-14-2013, 02:24 PM
#36
Thanks! I made a bad choice in a spectre cold air kit on my 72 Camaro that choked me down badly when I made the cars maiden voyage to the track .The car ran great to about 4800 - 5000rpms and just nosed over. I came home and researched the low profile bonnet and it would only flow 625cfms! I looked up my airflow needs on Wallace Racing and need a MINIMUN of 800cfms and up to 1100cfms. I pulled the cold air kit and put my 14" breather back on and took it out for a quick test. The car went straight to 7k before I could get second gear!
Anyway, Im headed back to the track for redemption next weekend. To answer your question though, shifting at 5200-5500, the car ran 12.42 at 109. It ran like an 11 sec car up to about 4800, then acted more like a 15 sec car to 5500. Im excited to see what it has in it now. Im hoping to break into the 11s, which would be a pretty big deal for me . I didn't build the car for dragracing. It has hotchkis suspension ,big brakes, vintage air, ps,pb. I put it together to run and handle with the new muscle cars from the big 3, but in a classic 70s body.
As far as the stage 2 cam goes, LOL, been there done that! It seem to be built into our DNA to look to the bottom of the page when picking a cam. The bad thing is, it leads to much more money spent , to get the potential out of our choice. Well I need to mill the heads to get the compression up because the cam is lazy down low, and while Im at it, might as well do a good CNC job while they are off. These stock gears don't let me get to the sweet spot in the cam soon enough so I bet a set of 4.10s would be perfect. This stall is just not cutting it for some reason. It is suppose to go to 3600, but is only doing 3000 because my engine wont make enough torque down low make the converter work. I need a 4500 stall now. Where did my daily driver go!!?? I will just get a Honda to drive to work and save my other "daily driver" for the weekend, the list goes on..........LOL!
Ive learned , after many years of living the paragraph above, the cam shouldn't be the "BIG" part in the engine, but ,if anything, one step smaller than it wants.
Anyway, Im headed back to the track for redemption next weekend. To answer your question though, shifting at 5200-5500, the car ran 12.42 at 109. It ran like an 11 sec car up to about 4800, then acted more like a 15 sec car to 5500. Im excited to see what it has in it now. Im hoping to break into the 11s, which would be a pretty big deal for me . I didn't build the car for dragracing. It has hotchkis suspension ,big brakes, vintage air, ps,pb. I put it together to run and handle with the new muscle cars from the big 3, but in a classic 70s body.
As far as the stage 2 cam goes, LOL, been there done that! It seem to be built into our DNA to look to the bottom of the page when picking a cam. The bad thing is, it leads to much more money spent , to get the potential out of our choice. Well I need to mill the heads to get the compression up because the cam is lazy down low, and while Im at it, might as well do a good CNC job while they are off. These stock gears don't let me get to the sweet spot in the cam soon enough so I bet a set of 4.10s would be perfect. This stall is just not cutting it for some reason. It is suppose to go to 3600, but is only doing 3000 because my engine wont make enough torque down low make the converter work. I need a 4500 stall now. Where did my daily driver go!!?? I will just get a Honda to drive to work and save my other "daily driver" for the weekend, the list goes on..........LOL!
Ive learned , after many years of living the paragraph above, the cam shouldn't be the "BIG" part in the engine, but ,if anything, one step smaller than it wants.
I recently drove a 5th gen with tsp 231/236 which has 1 degree more of overlap than the stage 2 and thought the drivability was pretty good. I probably wont change the 3.23 rear gear or converter for a dd it will be good enough for me.I don't know why so many are scared of large cams. Large cams make for added pumping losses. If you can make up that pumping loss with compression you've gotten the best of both worlds.
Most people just want their horsepower delivered to them on a plate though and don't want to do the necessary things to make their combination go from OK to awesome.
Most people just want their horsepower delivered to them on a plate though and don't want to do the necessary things to make their combination go from OK to awesome.
06-14-2013, 07:43 PM
#37
I wasn't singling you out ,Martin, but you did say just raise the compression to make up for pumping loses with the fatter cam, right?
All I am trying to say to the OP is, matching your combo is important for a strong running , overall performer and that going big on any one part can upset the apple cart and make for a temperamental DAYLY driver.
I respect you and admire your knowledge in valve trains and recommend you to anyone who asks, and I have no beef with you, regardless of whether or not we agreed on my cam needs a while back. Its just really EZ to pick too big a cam for a hotrodder. They cost the same and look cool on paper, so why not? Then its all money pit from there. The OP actually did just that. You recommended the stage 1 and now he has the stage 2 on the way. Just trying to put my .02 in for the OP to maybe save him some of the same headaches Ive had in the past.
Im sorry if it looked like I tried to disrespect you. It was not my intention. Now , back on point. Sorry for the jack, OP.
All I am trying to say to the OP is, matching your combo is important for a strong running , overall performer and that going big on any one part can upset the apple cart and make for a temperamental DAYLY driver.
I respect you and admire your knowledge in valve trains and recommend you to anyone who asks, and I have no beef with you, regardless of whether or not we agreed on my cam needs a while back. Its just really EZ to pick too big a cam for a hotrodder. They cost the same and look cool on paper, so why not? Then its all money pit from there. The OP actually did just that. You recommended the stage 1 and now he has the stage 2 on the way. Just trying to put my .02 in for the OP to maybe save him some of the same headaches Ive had in the past.
Im sorry if it looked like I tried to disrespect you. It was not my intention. Now , back on point. Sorry for the jack, OP.
I made a statement based on a trend I saw in this thread and that is too be scared of a larger cam with LS3 heads. When done right, they make great power everywhere. It can be done and it's not voodoo or black magic to make it happen. You guys will see just that with Keith102371's set-up he is building.
I never said a large cam was right for a DD, I just made a statement in general based on comments made in the thread. I have no ill feelings towards you either.
Martin, how much compression would you recommend with the stage 2? Im running an L92 short block with a .040" compressed thickness head gasket which should put me around 10.7. I know i need more compression but not sure how much ptv clearance ill have if i mill .020" to .030".
Last edited by Sales@Tick; 06-14-2013 at 07:48 PM.
06-14-2013, 11:07 PM
#38
If you notice and as you said, I recommended a 227/234 .614"/.612" 113+4 camshaft. I don't think that's very big? 4 degrees of overlap@.050"?
I made a statement based on a trend I saw in this thread and that is too be scared of a larger cam with LS3 heads. When done right, they make great power everywhere. It can be done and it's not voodoo or black magic to make it happen. You guys will see just that with Keith102371's set-up he is building.
I never said a large cam was right for a DD, I just made a statement in general based on comments made in the thread. I have no ill feelings towards you either.
The Stage 2 will do fine with 10.7-10.8:1 compression. Although I'd always like to see more compression utilized, space is tight with the size of the intake valve and smaller amount of valve drop the stock casting square port heads have. You have enough P to V clearance with that cam and the exhaust reliefs that the L92 engines had to mill .010" off the head if you felt like paying for it to be done. With a .040" gasket that would put you right around 11.0:1 compression.
I made a statement based on a trend I saw in this thread and that is too be scared of a larger cam with LS3 heads. When done right, they make great power everywhere. It can be done and it's not voodoo or black magic to make it happen. You guys will see just that with Keith102371's set-up he is building.
I never said a large cam was right for a DD, I just made a statement in general based on comments made in the thread. I have no ill feelings towards you either.
The Stage 2 will do fine with 10.7-10.8:1 compression. Although I'd always like to see more compression utilized, space is tight with the size of the intake valve and smaller amount of valve drop the stock casting square port heads have. You have enough P to V clearance with that cam and the exhaust reliefs that the L92 engines had to mill .010" off the head if you felt like paying for it to be done. With a .040" gasket that would put you right around 11.0:1 compression.
