lil john

true on the seat time..... take Tim or WCKM .... may have said it wrong.....xbox ........ for an example 416 ls3 head sub 10 set up. with the correct set-up..... what if after market heads were used. TFS/AFR heads and a 402-416 are proven #s . ................But .......12 degrees......vs..........13.5.....15......would not be fair for some 1 with a good cam guy.

lil john

more than correct....Most guys dont max the ls3 heads......also FAST intake doesnt % wise match the CAT style port. FAST LS3..... the intake would have to be in the 350+ range.... as with most LS2 heads max @ closers to ported FAST intake .........INTAKE CHOICE SORRY FOR CAPS .....playing and typing

Sinister_Z28

Alright guys, I see what u guys are saying. First up i don't have LS3 heads i have LSA heads. From all the reading I've done i have come to the conclusion that as cast LSA heads are not as good in a NA app as as cast LS3 heads because i have that massive fin in my intake port.

My interest in the Mast heads is from the different valve angle which if i remember right helps with PTV. Also i like AFR because they are CARB legal here in SOCAL.

My goal with this car is to have a hard hitting NA combo that runs low 10's maybe even a 9.99 which at that point i would be ecstatic. Here in SOCAL we have lots of imports in my area that claim to be vette killers lol. Now some of them are pretty quick, as in gutted race gas turbo 4 bangers. I want to put a hurting on em all motor pump gas.

Now with all that aside, i love the way my car drives now. It runs like stock sub 3000 rpms then pulls like a fright train from 3000 up to whenever i feel like shifting. However when i shift from first to second with my current setup it falls right under my power band so it hesitates for a second before it takes off again. I don't like that. Now the appeal of cathedral port heads is that they make tons of power right off idle up to redline. Now if u paired that with say 4.30 or 4.10 gears and got it to hook it would be a potent combo.

Now I'm still looking hard at the RHS LS7 head combo but i haven't priced out having them machined and ported yet. Now from a racing stand point what would be the best combo without having to spin my motor to 8000+ rpms. I don't really want to spin it over 7500 max if i don't have to. Basically I'm trying to do all the research i can and learn as much as i can to make a smart choice.

lil john

Take the AFR 245 or 225...205/ TFS 235/245 and a MAST intake vs MAST / TFS ls3 heads and Pat G maxes both. Factory ported ls3 head strokers are no joke(right cam) for AFR/TFS & MAST ....... but all out....carb intake & REC ports. VS ANY CAT style head ....better yet take a pair of MAMOFIED 245s 4500.oo same engine and a set of TFS LS3s+800 for hand port job for +700 lift ??????????? The real thing is how fast and how much u got 2 spend. These are different lay outs 12 & at max 15 deg. ls7 ports are higher yet the runner is larger than most aftermaket LS3 12 deg. or CAT heads . your app ..should tell U the way to GO.....but most 416 or less LOVE AFR & TFS heads and a FAST intake....throw in GZ Vacuum 550RWHP with a clutch

Sinister_Z28

So basically ur saying that either route can yield awesome results but it just comes down to money and maxing out whatever setup i choose?

lil john

CORRECT IM LOOKING @ SOME CRAZY # FOR TFS LS3 FLOW TO .900 AND PORT NEAR STOCK JUST HAND PORTED TO MATCH NEAR 730 LIFT ......THATS LATER BUT MY TFS HEADS ARE 600 MORE THAN IF I PORT MY FACTORY LS3s.......I WeNT WITH VIC jr....... IM ALSO CHASING A # 700FWHP ON PUMP AI L92s fit the bill .....look at Tims 9sec 416 Stang with ported ls3 heads.......change to TFS HEADS ..... would be CRAZY POWER.... ADD LIFT AND A SOLID AND THE MAST INTAKE ..........YOUR HEADS ARE AS good as YOUR INTKAKE.

Sinister_Z28

I see that. Now since solid rollers have come into the discussion why do people say they are high maintance? The only thing i could think of would be valve lash checking/adjusting from time to time

lil john

correct..... and lifter/spring fear i went ez roller lifters with NO needle bearings cost 900.+ and springs are a tad stiffer than a max effort hyd spring. 1209x but in terms of hp no comp .i ran with idea of a good 408 and said F*¥@ it they can make 700fwhp with a 416 AI ported LS3 heads with 13.5 comp... Vic Jr and a hyd roller .I got better heads and a solid to make up the compression mine is 11.7 .... factor in the GZ vac. pump +15 to 20hp . Sorry.... Forza4 hacking cars and putting Bugatti SS engine in a 70 camaro on 22s

Sinister_Z28

So i assume that a vacuum pump basically supplies all the vacuum so nothing is interfering with the engine correct? Like brake boosters, HVACs, so on and so forth. Now i was researching all night while at work and it seems that every cylinder head thread always has someone come in and say not to just look at flow numbers and intake runner sizes but to look at Cross Section Area. What exactly is CSA and what is a good CSA to shoot for with a 408?

DietCoke

iTrader: (18)

vacuum pump is bottom end, not top end. it pulls vac in the crankcase so there is no pumping loss on the rotating assembly.

Sinister_Z28

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

KCS

iTrader: (20)

Cross section is basically the area of the port as the air would see it, and often times people will mean minimum cross section as that will be a substantial limiting factor in the port shape. You can have a 210cc head and a 235cc head, both with the same Minimum Cross Sectional Area (MCSA). The MCSA is usually just above the valve job, but after the turn. Sizing the MCSA depends on several variables, but there is a rough ballpark formula you can use published by Jim McFarland:

MCSA=(displacement of 1 cylinder x peak torque RPM) / 88,200

Sinister_Z28

So why do people on here tell most people who start a head thread on here to look at CSA/MCSA if u need the peak torque RPM? Also has anyone confirmed Mast's claim that there heads make 50 more hp than any other head company? Merry Christmas guys.

lil john

mast heads are good but AllPro / TFS heads will meet or beat MAST HEADS except for rare canted heads and raised ports.

Sinister_Z28

Ok so Mast vs All Pro, which makes better power. I have never really seen anybody running All Pro heads.

Also what is a optimal valve size for a 4.030" bore?

lil john

Tfs for ls3 port & afr/tfs for ls2 style port

lil john

ALL PRO HEADS R 3200 BARE LS3/7 HEADS PORT IS 266 AND FLOWS 400@.675 4.125 BORE Compare TFS LS3 255 CC HEADS FOR (mine were 902 ea./ REALWORLD 11O5.99 ea SMALLER PORT AND A EXTRA 800 BUCKS TO MAKE IT A BETTER FLOWING HEAD more of a RACE TYPE HEAD SAY 260-267 CC

Sinister_Z28

I figured that out a while back. Lately ive been reading up on some of the Mamofied 205cc headed builds and they are pretty impressive. I think a Mamofied 210 or 215 head would be killer on a 408. Whats ur guys thoughts. The reason im really interested in AFR heads is they are emissions leagal here in CA, so that eliminates one more ticket I could be issued if I ever have to pop my hood.