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I'm not claiming to be a cam expert, guru as I had Martin from Tick Performance come up with the cam for mine. I pay attention to what people are running in different setups & 113 lsa & split duration seems to be what the square port heads like. That cam is definitely designed for cathedral port heads. Guy he bought the car from probably got a deal on it tried it out. Mine is on a 113+4 lsa & I have no complaints! I guarantee the OPs car would be a totally different animal with a custom cam.
Agree Martin specs awesome cams, where my current came from. He can definitely get you to your goals. Your right totally different car with new cam it wont run at all! I'v voiced my opinion on this. Never seen a custom cam that didn't say "requires custom tuning" OP's Current cam may not be the " perfect cam " but you know nothing if it's not setup in computer right. Experience tells me tune it before sh@t canning it. Three ls cars, five motors and 7 cams later. Know not one setup liked being miss tuned. Back in 04 swapped my stock 98 ls1 cam and heads with the old thunder 224 @ .563 and absolute speed heads. Combo ran terrible had to drill TB etc.. Just to idle around town, until it was tuned. After tuning I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread lol. Use an engine calculator see what it thinks of cam, run it again with new cam specs... I'd bet you'll see less than 20hp differences anywhere under peak curve. Then weight cost of a tune vs cost of a cam swap and tune.
Definitely get what you have tuned properly. Even if it means using a mail order tune, or someone else's tune, to get it driving. Even if you have to leave town to find a good tuner. Even if you have to buy a new MAF or add wideband sensors.
A new cam would still require you to do all of those things, anyways, so you might as well do it without buying and installing a new cam.
This is all I know about the motor. Like I said I don't know much about it all. It made 530 whp on the dyno. If that sounds right
I called Texas speed and the guy suggested a 231 236 cam and Said it will give me more bottom end power and better street manners.
Last edited by Evan.steeves; 09-11-2015 at 01:19 PM.
Agree Martin specs awesome cams, where my current came from. He can definitely get you to your goals. Your right totally different car with new cam it wont run at all! I'v voiced my opinion on this. Never seen a custom cam that didn't say "requires custom tuning" OP's Current cam may not be the " perfect cam " but you know nothing if it's not setup in computer right. Experience tells me tune it before sh@t canning it. Three ls cars, five motors and 7 cams later. Know not one setup liked being miss tuned. Back in 04 swapped my stock 98 ls1 cam and heads with the old thunder 224 @ .563 and absolute speed heads. Combo ran terrible had to drill TB etc.. Just to idle around town, until it was tuned. After tuning I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread lol. Use an engine calculator see what it thinks of cam, run it again with new cam specs... I'd bet you'll see less than 20hp differences anywhere under peak curve. Then weight cost of a tune vs cost of a cam swap and tune.
Hell even shelf cams "require extensive tuning!" Its very possible it just needs a good tuners touch!
This is all I know about the motor. Like I said I don't know much about it all. It made 530 whp on the dyno. If that sounds right
I called Texas speed and the guy suggested a 231 236 cam and Said it will give me more bottom end power and better street manners.
Kind of helps, clear where it came from and what it is, tsp built it, there proprietary monster. I'm going to say it this way... buy a tuning suite and a Wb02 tune it using the files provided early in responses it'll already be close enough to answer the is it tuning or cam. If you don't like it buy the recommended cam, install it then you'll have a wb02 (nice to know what your car is doing for real) and tuning suite to fine tune your combo or tune that second cam to begin with. Saving yourself lots of cash and headaches with dyno shops and flakey inexperienced tuners who don't care about much other than your cash. Particularly with no reputable tuner near you don't think you should go on without the two. I'v got a horrible feeling guy did very little to your stock tune, without software suite to check he could have simply scaled down one table to fix idle and in process ruined mid-range. If you had software you could A. see what the tuner has actually changed and B. pm it to forums and get "TONS" of help and knowledge from lots of experienced ppl. Beyond that you can resell the suite once tuned or keep it and live on to find software like hptuners,efilive are super handy for diagnosing problems with your and inevitbly lots of other ppls cars.
More I think about it more I'd say
TSP should be able to help with the cam you have, clearly was an assembled long block packaged w/ that cam by them to start with. They turn out that 418 with that second "recommended" cam as a long block default 418 using drop downs on site they're bound to know what it likes for tuning with either cam dunno if they'll share however.
I already put a tune for that exact cam on here. I can guarantee that it will run 100x better then whatever hack tune you have in it now, even if it isnt perfect.
I see, he bought it as a long block. So it just needs tuning! So whoever did tune it only did the PE WOT stuff more than likely, why it has no street manners. I'm a lil amazed that's the cam Texas Speed came up with! I'm curious what the bill was on that long block. I didn't sit down & write every lil part down but in my head I had about $9k into mine & only differences are the cam, crank & rods as far as what I bought. Hes got a 4.080 bore, 4.070 bore here.
At the end of the day, call Texas Speed. For reals. They built the damn thing. And put that obnoxious cam in it on purpose.
Oh, and please just load the member's file and try it. If he has that cam, in a similar build, and your tune is bogus... Then you have nothing to lose. You at least have someone knowledgeable, who is willing to help.
Evan, just from reading your post, you need to yank that cam and get rid of it. That type of cam is going to require a lot of attention.
I would pull that cam out, then put a small one in at least until you are used to tuning and dealing w/these types of problems. A small cam in some instances can make nearly the same power. Good example. We put a stock C5Z cam in my engine (416), it made 496rwhp/530rwtq. Not too bad for a crappy stock cam. The difference between my small cam and yours is the torque and hp is shifted. With the cam they recommended, it will likely run hard and will make power close to what you have, who knows maybe more.
Your compression is ??11.5 and his was 15 LOL. Its unknown how each was tuned, OL, CL. Too many variables. A good street cam will be a lot more fun for you until you get the learning curve down.
Evan, just from reading your post, you need to yank that cam and get rid of it. That type of cam is going to require a lot of attention.
I would pull that cam out, then put a small one in at least until you are used to tuning and dealing w/these types of problems. A small cam in some instances can make nearly the same power. Good example. We put a stock C5Z cam in my engine (416), it made 496rwhp/530rwtq. Not too bad for a crappy stock cam. The difference between my small cam and yours is the torque and hp is shifted. With the cam they recommended, it will likely run hard and will make power close to what you have, who knows maybe more.
Your compression is ??11.5 and his was 15 LOL. Its unknown how each was tuned, OL, CL. Too many variables. A good street cam will be a lot more fun for you until you get the learning curve down.
Good luck.
It was ~13:1 with that cam. I've built more then one engine
Since Texas Speed did the engine......and since you're not gonna be racing the car.....go with the milder cam (that 231/236 duration) they recommend and have one of the recommended forum tuners already mentioned, give you a good tune for the car.
Current cam is obviously NOT to your liking....and even with a dead-on tune, will still be more than a handful in normal street driving.
Thanks for all the reply ppl. I don't mind losing some hp up top for street manners.
I am looking for low to mid end power where I find the big cam I need to rev the bag off the car to get power, I'd rather not even go over 5000 rpm and was told the smaller cam would offer more power down low and less bucking, I'm gonna swap the cam over and giver a try and will post updates
So I got in touch with the orgianal owner would built the car. And it's not a 251/259
It's a 251/267 .624/.624 115 If that changes much ? But still. Swapping cam this week
If you haven't purchased the cam yet I would talk with Kip
@ CAM MOTION 231*/236* is very small for 416" and 5*
exhaust split is pretty small for rectangle heads even @
5000 RPM. I Would look at 235*/243* with LSA 115*+3*
Would idle and run very Smooooth, 16* less intake duration
Then your current cam, 16*-24* less exhaust duration.
Not an expert just my .02.
That TSP 231/236 cam works really well in a 416 with either cnc'd GM heads (more balanced E/I ratio) or the PRC 255 heads that my buddies GS vette has . The single issue I don't like is the lift @ .624 is more than the factory rocker likes. He doesn't break anything but the offset intakes get chewed up from the valve tips. He does track his car a lot but just replaces the intake side only every year. He also drives 5-7 K on the street as well.
Perhaps see if Texas Speed could get you a .600 lift version of that cam or if you have aftermarket rockers, maybe try a low lash solid roller from Cam Motion in the 235/240 range
If you haven't purchased the cam yet I would talk with Kip
@ CAM MOTION 231*/236* is very small for 416" and 5*
exhaust split is pretty small for rectangle heads even @
5000 RPM. I Would look at 235*/243* with LSA 115*+3*
Would idle and run very Smooooth, 16* less intake duration
Then your current cam, 16*-24* less exhaust duration.
Not an expert just my .02.
Not a bad idea for this particular build. Thought expensive, maybe that SR would make the idle even more tame.
Originally Posted by A.R. Shale Targa
That TSP 231/236 cam works really well in a 416 with either cnc'd GM heads (more balanced E/I ratio) or the PRC 255 heads that my buddies GS vette has . The single issue I don't like is the lift @ .624 is more than the factory rocker likes. He doesn't break anything but the offset intakes get chewed up from the valve tips. He does track his car a lot but just replaces the intake side only every year. He also drives 5-7 K on the street as well.
Perhaps see if Texas Speed could get you a .600 lift version of that cam or if you have aftermarket rockers, maybe try a low lash solid roller from Cam Motion in the 235/240 range
If you haven't purchased the cam yet I would talk with Kip
@ CAM MOTION 231*/236* is very small for 416"......
Quiet as it's kept, the cubic inches of an engine is MUCH LESS important in determining cam specs than the compression ratio of said engine .
Often times, people step into a huge pile of crap because they put a big-assed cam into a stroker just because it was a stroker.
That engine, on a SWAG, looks to be about 11.2:1 CR.....the 231*/236* cam will be fine. Some top end power will be left on the table.....but so what? On the street, it will be responsive in traffic, will be plenty fun enough on the highway and open roads, and will have way better manners than the 25X* cam.
09-11-2015, 12:30 PM
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