Should I build a 441 or 454???
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Staging Lane
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Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Wentzville missouri
Should I build a 441 or 454??? What are the pro's and cons to each engine? I'm going to be using an lsx block and shooting for 700 hp N/A with a possible shot of nitrous later. I've heard that some 454 setups have oiling or clearance issues? My logic is that more Cubic Inches means more power easily, but is this actually the case? I'm going to be running 93 pump gas and 11.5:1 ish compression, the highest compression I can get away with without spraying meth. Thanks in advance for your input.
93 can easily support 12:1 with a healthy cam profile. I'm doing a 4.190" bore/4" stroke as I had to overbore it to clean it up. Stick with 4.185" bore. Anything bigger than a 4" stroke crank side loads the pistons more and wears them out quicker.
Launching!
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 229
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From: Frisco TX
I have 12.2:1 N/A and use 93 pump gas without issue in Texas heat, I make near your goal with a 434 (4.155 x 4.0).
The problem with a 454 (4.185 bore x 4.0 stroke) is the head gasket thickness between the cylinders on spray.
It isn't very thick and you can blow the gasket fairly easy on a 200 shot. The 2nd problem is rebuilds, there's not enough bore materiel left for an over bore if a hone wont clean up the cylinder.
I wouldn't use the 4.1 stroke as gnx7 said because of the side loads and pulling the pistons too far out of the bore, plus 4.1's are generally not recommended with a power adder especially a 200 shot. most builders will tell you no more than a 100 shot, I'd stay with a 4.0 stroke.
The problem with a 454 (4.185 bore x 4.0 stroke) is the head gasket thickness between the cylinders on spray.
It isn't very thick and you can blow the gasket fairly easy on a 200 shot. The 2nd problem is rebuilds, there's not enough bore materiel left for an over bore if a hone wont clean up the cylinder.
I wouldn't use the 4.1 stroke as gnx7 said because of the side loads and pulling the pistons too far out of the bore, plus 4.1's are generally not recommended with a power adder especially a 200 shot. most builders will tell you no more than a 100 shot, I'd stay with a 4.0 stroke.
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Joined: Aug 2009
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From: Coast of San Mateo County Between Pacifica & HMB
4.155-4.175" Bore X 4.00" Stroke, Bore size leaves room for better gasket
Sealing and rebore if needed, 4.00" stroke less side loading (major thrust)
Better piston compression height, ring pack, and rod/ratio.
Just adding my .02 to the consensus above.
Sealing and rebore if needed, 4.00" stroke less side loading (major thrust)
Better piston compression height, ring pack, and rod/ratio.
Just adding my .02 to the consensus above.
Bryan at LME talked me into a 4.155 x 4.125. The LSX blocks have a lot more cylinder wall than factory blocks tho. I've been spraying a 200 shot on it for about a bottle now and a couple bottles of 150. No adverse effects so far.
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^This. I'm building a 4.130 x 4.125 nitrous motor. 12.2 comp, solid roller. Don't let the internet scare you haha. I always tell everyone their best bet is to talk to experienced engine builders. LME, HKE, ERL.......
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 229
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From: Frisco TX
ERL built my motor and advised against a 4.1 stroke with a power adder. So did a couple others.
What about a 4.230" bore LSX block and the as suggested 4" arm for a 450 inch mill with two additional bore sizes available for rebuilds. The insane NA power should only need an occasional 100 horse tickle from time to time
Launching!
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 229
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From: Frisco TX
Those are GM's claims, all the issues going past 4.155 are still there because its a still a 4.4 bore center block meaning the area between the cylinders is very thin (.220) and the head gaskets are still your biggest issue, very very thin between bores and all you'd likely be able to use is a 100 shot.
