KCS

iTrader: (20)

I think the valve size would be a little better indicator. The minimum CSA is usually in the venturi, where most performance heads will have the venturi diameter at 90% of the valve (+/-2%). So where a 2.125" valve would likely have 2.87 sq in, a 2.20" valve would likely have 3.08 sq in. Stock LS3 heads, FWIW, have about 2.75 sq in (86%).

Tuskyz28

Kinda have to disagree about the valve size indicator deal.... here's why. I do understand however you explaining some on the csa.
Dart is 2.165
TFS is 2.165
Brodix is 2.165
They all the same valve size but with different intake runner sizes.
TFS 255 head is 12 degrees valve angle vs the other I just posted. Brodix and dart is 15 degrees. Again it's a confusing topic when it comes to picking the "correct" LS3 head of a guy choose chooses to go this route. I go over to Engine Labs website all the time and what did I stumble across? I stumbled acrossed two 427ci motors using both LS3 heads. Both motors used a fast intake. 102mm...
Engine A had 12.1 compression and a bigger cam with bigger headers. Engine made 640 horse at the crank. Heads was TFS 255 heads.
Engine B had 11.1 compression with a smaller cam with smaller headers and made 633 horses at crank with cnc L92 heads.

G Atsma

Would it be safe to say Engine B had more power on the low and mid range? Plus maybe more under the curve? All for a lower parts bill (hopefully). The 7 HP loss might be worth it...

Tuskyz28

Engine A peak torque is 580 ft lbs at 5300 rpm vs Engine B at 592 ft lbs at 4900 rpm.

​​​​When spending money on this hobbie I'll certainly like to know I'll get what I pay for.
We talking a 1000 dollar difference between these two heads.

KCS

iTrader: (20)

You can have three ports with the same CSA in the venturi and have different volumes. Especially with different valve angles.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Yep. The rolled over valve angle is actually going to have a smaller CSA in most cases. It creates a straighter shot for the airflow as well. This is why you see pumped up midlift flow numbers from the aftermarket heads with rolled over valves. Or the LS7 in general.

G Atsma

Bang for the buck for sure! Engine B would have my vote for most likeable on the street and overall satisfaction.

Detoxx03

iTrader: (14)

Thank you sir

mOtOrHeAd MiKe

iTrader: (8)

We don't hear about anything that doesn't come from a vendor because of the narrowminded and backasswards rules around here. Ever notice how 100% of the H/C/I builds are sourced from the same pool of "proven" products? And how anything new is readily denounced until a vendor gives it their blessing?



There are a lot more options out there than the administration would have you believe.

KCS

iTrader: (20)

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"6. We allow non-sponsoring manufacturers and vendors to come to LS1TECH and speak about their new products or answer technical questions about their products. This has never been a problem. Most of these vendors will often direct any business to their distributors who advertise here. We encourage industry people to visit and interact here. They can do so without soliciting products, this has been proven for years now. We only ask that non-sponsors make no attempt to post any form of pricing or contact information (email, phone, website, address, etc...) with intentions to solicit for business. We ask that they direct all sales through a current vendor, or become a sponsor to do so directly."

KW Baraka

iTrader: (7)

I don't know you from **** on a wall, nor do I give a motherfuck about you. And whatever your problems are, you don't want me to be one of them.

Jus' sayin'.......

KW

G Atsma

Well put KW, guys(and I use that term loosely...) like him just love to hear themselves squawk about whatever. Thank you!

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

I'm interested in who spec'd out the cams for engine "A" and engine "B". As we all know, LS3 headed combos need to have a cam tailor made to the setup.

Tuskyz28

No problem.... engine A Camshaft
248*/264*@ .050" with .694"/ .681" lift on a 112 + 4 LSA on a cam Motion core from a highly respected LS shop in Houston Texas.

On Engine B it was around 240-242 on intake duration. Engine B was built by Bill Bowoskski. Google his name and the shop will come up. Can't remember right off too my head exactly what the specs was but it was definitely smaller than Engine A and was barely 600 on the lift.

NAVYBLUE210

Camshaft in Engine A for a NA application is No Good IMHO and
severely hampered the TFS Heads/Engine performance.
Exhaust Split is Waaaaaay to big @ +16*
(+6*-+10* is the sweet spot for those heads NA) and 112*+4* LSA
did not help any either. Not fair or accurate to blame Heads/Performance
with crappy cam design!

Tuskyz28

We can argue all day about cam specs. Fact of the matter is YOU the one on board with TFS 255 heads running a 6 degree split PERIOD. If Tony Mamo wouldn't had did his touch on your heads they would need more of a split to perform well. What's the purpose of sending a set of heads to Tony Mamo if he can't make the intake/exhaust relationship better on the cylinder heads? Try that 6 degree split on a TFS 255 head right out the box and sees what happen. So anyway

NAVYBLUE210

You are correct I did run a 6* Spit and Tony did MAMOFY my heads
the pre and post E/I relationship did not change very much, less
then 3% if I remember correctly. Camster also agrees that
+6* exhaust is ideal as said in this thread. Tadams used a +10*
split on his 427" with TFS LS3s with excellent results as did
Carbuff as well. I stand by my +6*-+10* statement. Even
Martin has just specced +12* exhaust splits on two applications
mentioned above.

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Engine "B" had quite a bit smaller cam, less compression, and came damn close to engine "A" numbers. I believe with a bump in compression, engine "B" would have equaled or made more power than engine "A".

I have to agree that the cam in engine "A" hindered it's performance. I would be interesting to see what a cam with 10 or less split would have done.

Tuskyz28

LMAO!! I'm sure it's more than 3 percent or whatever you say on changing up the intake/exhaust relationship.
Carbuff used a carb.... that changes up things in on how a guy would spec the cam for the engine. It's not a fast intake car or msd intake setup.
Hell on a Mamofied cathedral head I wouldn't be scared to run a single pattern duration camshaft because I know the intake/exhaust relationship will be outstanding vs others on the market.

spanks13

iTrader: (5)

FWIW I have a set of these on order and should be shipping within the coming weeks.

I have a 4.005" x 4.00" LS2 based stroker considering going LLSR.

11.5:1 compression Stroked LS2
4.005" x 4.000"
Callies crank and rods
Diamond ceramic coated pistons with 5.8 cc valve reliefs
SPS haymaker heads 2.125/1.600" hollow/solid stainless valves, 63.5 cc chambers.
.685" BTR dual springs and Ti retainers.
.060" thick cometic gasket w/ pistons .016-.018 out of the hole for a .042" quench
GPI "rod mod" LS3 intake
1 7/8" long tube headers into 3" Kooks green cats and dual 2.5" to the bumper
LS3 rockers w/ trunion upgrade & shims under the stands for setting lash (considering an upgrade here after seeing the Comp trunion failures...)
3/8" manton taper pushrods

If solid roller, thinking 242/248 on 115.5 +4.5 after input from Steven @ Cammotion. Want to check valvetrain geometry prior to spec'ing lift but I'd like it to be .650-ish.

I'm waiting for BTR to chime in but all they said so far was that the .685 lift springs are insufficient for a solid roller...seems contrary to other people's experience and I'm not inclined to agree.

BTR .685" Lift Dual Springs, 170 lbs @ 1.800", 450 lbs @ 1.115", Coil Bind @ 1.000" Set of 16