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Me and a good friend of mine on here aka.....Darth have set a few rules in which we are NOT trying to go Broke but build something that you could call....Somewhat wild but must run on the street *Must, it's all talk but in the future you never know as this is why we've been talking about it .... Rules are no tall decks any factory or aftermarket style block just normal deck height. Compression Must be able to run on E85 or pump. 8,000-10,000 miles yearly and the best thing is 800 rwhp* Darth's idea so I had to come up with something cause it's all NA. Thing is to not break the bank with $7k+ heads. Heck of a idea Genius, lol. Oh yea 8000 to 8300 max rpm we know you need some RPM but nothing crazy. When Darth said something about this I have a format that I just list the part name and size and have a basic build. List bore/crank/comp/cam/heads with all other small stuff IE rocker arms and intakes. Is 800 at the rear NA possible and still run pump gas? LOL! We think so.

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Darths not telling about his as it's Top Secret. I sent him a build in a few minutes this is how mine s looked. We talked and did this days ago and asked D about posting it Darth said, don't let his cat out of the bag but place the thread up. It could be fun.

BY THE NUMBERS
461.6 ci LS Chevy
Block: Resleeved 5.3
Bore: 4.200 inches
Stroke: Eagle 4.125 crank cut to 4.165 inches
Displacement: 461.6 ci
Compression ratio: 13.5
Crank & rods: Eagle
Camshaft: Mike Jones
Timing chain:
Lifters: Morel bearing less lifters
Pushrods:

Springs:
Installed height: N/A
Spring load closed: N/A
Spring load open: N/A
Retainers:
Valve locks:
Cam duration, intake: 287 at .050
Intake lift: .820 inch
Cam duration, exhaust 299 at .050
Exhaust lift: .820 inch
Rocker arms: T&D series Shaft Rocker arms - $1350
Rocker ratio: 1.8:1/1.8:1
Lobe separation: 114
Installed centerline: 114
Ring pack: 1,1,2mm for Ls based engine :Total Seal Gold Series 1mm/1mm/2mm oil:

*Just inform those that don't know:
1mm = .039"
.043 is .043"
1.2mm=.047"
1.5mm=.059"
1/16=.0625"

2mm oil=.079"
3mm oil=.118"
4mm oil=.158"
3/16"=.1875 *

Ring end gap: .018 top/.022 second
Pistons: JE Asymmetrical forgings & coated skirts with
1mm/1mm/2mm ring lands
(.004-inch piston-to-wall)
Main studs: ARP
Rods: Eagle 6 inch H-beam
Main bearings: Clevite H
Rod bearings: Clevite HN
Main journal diameter: OEM
Rod journal diameter: 2.10-inch journal
Main clearance: .0018 inch
Rod clearance: .0021 inch
Cylinder heads: RHS Ls7: 290ish CC port with 2.250-2.280 intake and 1.60 exhaust valves

4.125 bore with a 2.200 intake valve that flows 410@.700

4.155 bore with a 2.250 intake valve that flows 439@.750

Head bolts: ARP studs
Intake manifold: CID

Intake flow: ???? cfm at .600
Exhaust flow: ???? cfm at .600
Intake valve: REV. Hollow stem 2.250 inches valves
Exhaust valve: REV. 1.60 inches valves
Head gaskets: Cosmetic MLS. (.036 inch)
Piston/head clearance: .036 inch
Engine gaskets: OEM
Throttle body: Accufab 4500, 2000cfm Throttle Body
Headers: 2.125-to-2.250-inch long-tube headers, 3.25/3.50-inch merge collector

Spark plug wires: MSD. 8.5mm wires& E3 Diamond Fire Plugs
Damper: ATI with 10% percent U/D
Water pump: Meziere electric
Oil pan: Moroso
Oil pump: Melling High pressure
Oil: AMSOIL 5W-30

1973 STEP A SIDE

iTrader: (4)

And keep the build cost under 10 grand ??

Crf450r420

iTrader: (1)

Have you used the Crower stainless steel shaft mount rockers before? Those are very nice.

The RHS LS7 heads perform very well. Hope to see this idea finished and built.

Patron

1973 STEP A SIDE: IDK about $10K but I could get close as I've got a $200 5.3(resleeve with Darton's $2k) and Jimbo gets me Eagle cranks @ what $750-800 rods $550 piston with the ring package I learned and Do LIKE $900 pistons + $500 total seal rings. The rocker arms could be carried over along with lifters/CID intake/GZ vacuum pump....aka I've got Ls7 heads for a small bore that still needs a few things. I could get very very close but to have it assembled cost around 3000 that's everything put on and ready for a dyno and or installation. Darth said 800 to the rear and I thought that could be cool. Let me see what I could come up with, this was 10 mins of work. There was a lot more on it with quotes from Chris Frank with others to back up what I was getting at. Figure this as it is, is good for 900 @ the crank.

Crf450r420: I know of these this was just a quick rough draft to see what Darth thought about it.

Side note: as I've said before Lsx DR heads and other Raised ports will do wonders but at a cost. A set of DR heads set up cost roughly 5k done with parts no rocker arms. I figure 600ea. for bare RHS heads and 1200-1500 for the work and larger intake valve. Could go even cheaper and do another set of ProComp castings I still have a spare head and could see what she takes from the Cnc. I know the weak points in the bowls. It's just a idea.... that looks pretty simple.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

Awesome build list!

The heads are the big question. There aren’t that many flowing well into 400 cam territory and to keep a cam that big tamed, it’s going to need crazy velocity. And I know lots of guys will look at that cam spec and think crazy big, but for a 460, it’s going to eat duration up. It needs that kind of cam to rev nicely and carry past peak.

Anyway, see what we come up with...

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I'd say a set of factory Ls3 heads could support the same hp not as good but would be well within range of what we're talking. If you look at any number of big HP-big bore small blocks CSA with Velocity comes into play it's not just the airflow. RPM. This is the one thing that I get lost on. 380 cfm can support how much hp? Better heads just make it easier with less camming and added HP & TQ.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

836? That’s what I came up with. I was thinking to get 800 rear wheel you need 410+ to allow for driveline losses?

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Darth most get lost on what they were sold on. SALES!

Darth I don't even look for CC's anymore, that's my new thing as of Today. To many different cc heads that flow this or that....Give me the CSA. I know 3.0 CSA get's close to 400 cfm but doesn't make it SAM has LS7 heads one with 275cc that only gets 370ish for CFM while another has a CSA of 3.2 to make 420. Higgins list what Darin's did: 3.30″ min cross section | 2.230″ intake valve | 1.580″ exhaust valve

LIFT .200 .300 .400 .500 .600 .700 .800 .900
INLET cfm 138 215 281 339 375 392 401 419
EXHAUST cfm 107 149 204 226 235 241 245 248

G. Good new CID heads have 290' cc and flow 420 WCCH has a old but newer 290cc Ls7 12-1 head to get to 400 with.. I don't even look at the cc stuff anymore. Give me the CSA. I can figure it out from there. 2.7-2.8 is for small bore stuff. ER said this and I think I sent it to you: you can Manipulate airflow numbers to read anything and all benches flow different.

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Some of the little stuff you pick up when you make your own heads. Get back @ you in a little while. Got a friends home I'm finishing today with stone 3 story that's sold already. I'm stuffed from making breakfast. Porkchop-hash browns-eggs-toast-grits and OJ. Need to roll up something to knock the food down to even start or do any work. Really feel bad but in a good way.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

Yeah I do not look at cc as much as I used to. Because runner length affects cc just as much as CSA. I do still take flow numbers seriously.

I was thinking a head needs to flow around 400+ at .600 lift and NOT level off to support 800 RWHP. If it flows 400 at 600 and then 405 at 650, I think that is less helpful vs a head that flows 400 at 600 and 420 at 650. any cam you are going to use is going to be much higher lift to get the lobe area. Very likely run with 1.9 rockers. Would have to open up the PR bosses. And also run good size pushrods. Say 1/2� baseball bats or some ****.

The heads I have seen so far that look promising are the GM LSX DR heads, Mamo 265, and mast mozez. The mozez flow crazy good and the port is huge. YUGE. Mamo and lsxdr basically flow about the same but the Mamo runner is somehow smaller, which I think would translate into velocity and help support a bigger cam with less reversion.

Of course ITB would correct reversion too...

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Darth your now talking like it's second hand nature on heads***I like! Here's the thing in which you know also Darth. The CC's don't mean $h!+. Think about the photos of my FRH Ls3 and my Rowdy Yates heads any person on here are where ever would think 268 and the others 275cc the 268 would have to be the LS7 heads WRONG! And the ports WAY smaller. By a landslide. I love Tony's heads but I'm lost 265 cc heads flow 415 while others need 285 to 290 cc to flow 400 and not stall or get Turbulent in which you hear the runners crying. DR heads are 312cc starting out and show it by lower CFM in lower and mid range flow figures. No velocity at lower lifts. Each engine is different and my thought is each set of heads should be made accordly no 1 size fit's all. As any head porter will tell you they match the CSA to the engine size and RPM given. CC will fool you but CSA will generally tell you what's the heads are looking for in RPM and engine size if you know the rules of a certain set of heads. ITB looks good for those who can afford it. CID looks even better for more HP. CHEAPER. Carb makes more hp but you can set a TB and EFI up for smooth operation. Go look at the CID head cost? I just know a guy who knows a guy who treats me really good. I'd be at what $2800 with RHS heads and FRH or Darin.

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What about TFS Ls7 heads needing a 2.230-.250 valve, if it would fit for yourself Darth with a little CSA to match. Imagine that?

blk00ss

iTrader: (66)

Sounds eerily similar to my build lol.

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It's funny you would say that. You have everything to do it with. BTW the funniest thing is the very cam you see was for a 440 that made well over 900 @ 8100 on this site with older PI or ET heads which are MAST Ls7 heads before Mr. Horace purchcase. They flowed 395 of the box 280ish cc * I think. The cam had over .9xx lift. As anyone who knows add stroke takes rpm down but will make more HP/TQ with more cam. I added .165 for stroke to bring down RPM some, but would make better AVG TQ and HP than the 4 or smaller crank with the same RPM peak. The opposite of de-stroke. What would the BES 457 Lsx make @ 10.5k rpm. VS the DART 400 ci build. Funny. What like 1200+ LMAO keep taking stroke out de strokers it makes HP.

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Darth where's Hammer or his buddy who know heads and camming. No Fast intake or MMS heads and there LOST like the TV series. You said stirr it up I've got a big spoon.

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Darth you remember me sending BES a message about there Factory Ls7 head program??Wink Wink!

? was:
I am wondering if the factory Ls7 heads I got for a deal would support 900 at the crank with your factory Ls7 cnc program. My cam spec's look like 285/298 .050 with .789 lift with 1.8 rocker arms.

Response was :yes sir i believe so depending on the intake manifold used.

*side note* of what Darin told me: Now this was when we 1st started talking about this and I said BES Cnc program looks good and has a nice price. And we both wondered..You already know I'll call, text,mail,fax etc.... to find out. This is on there site:

Starting at $1050

BES / GM LS7 Heads - Flow Numbers
Intake Exhaust
.100 68 55
.200 137 119
.300 217 169
.400 294 216
.500 339 240
.550 354 248
.600 367 255
.650 376 258
.700 385 260
.750 388 263
.800 394 265
.850 398 265
Intake Valve Dia. 2.205
Exhaust Valve Dia. 1.610

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

I’m starting to wonder if more cam split is needed. I keep looking at the flow bias of the heads. Maybe 285/305? To help get the exhaust out. I’m not sure yet. On a 408 that might be too much. On something bigger to absorb it? Hmmm.....

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They may not know we do this all the time, but that sounds fine to me. Do as we did before send what we have to Mike Jones and see how close we are. We are Never far off. LOL! We did the same thing for my 408 when I got the Ls7 heads did, and my dumb *** said 800+ with 13.1 comp and a 8300 peak. We said something like 276/29x 115 lsa 790 lift. We didn't look at cores just ballparking it. Sent back was.

277/292 @.050"
.448"/.436" Lobe Lift
.785"/.763" Net Valve Lift (after Lash)
115 LSA

And still run pump gas ....I wouldn't but in a crunch I could.

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Many Many ways to kill a cat*Dodge or a snake* Ford.